BritinUSA Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I hope Maria wins the overall. What would the odd be 50:1 ???? She finished 25th overall at World Shoot. I think this is the first time she has competed under USPSA Production rules so it will be interesting to see how she fares. I suspect top 15 is certainly achievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 It's amazing she is that good. All the crazy restrictions on her practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I hope Maria wins the overall. What would the odd be 50:1 ???? She finished 25th overall at World Shoot. I think this is the first time she has competed under USPSA Production rules so it will be interesting to see how she fares. I suspect top 15 is certainly achievable. Somebody should point out the USPSA belt rules before stage 1 please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 No longer necessary for belt position as 5.2.3.1 now applies to Production Division. The use of magnets is prohibited but allowed under IPSC, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Definition of intent: the act or fact of intending : purpose; especially : the design or purpose to commit a wrongful or criminal act Everyone is familar with the latter, but I think the intent of Production Division was to lure away some of the IDPA guys who wanted to play USPSA but didn't want to spend so much money. Now Production is full of Grand Masters, who didn't want to spend so much money either.......... The original "intent" of IDPA.... IDPA is the use of practical equipment including full charge service ammunition to solve simulated “real world” self-defense scenarios using practical handguns and holsters that are suitable for self-defense use. Now the power floor is 105, STIs are common, everyone wears spring loaded photographers vests over OWB holsters, 511 pants, etc. Whatever happened to the good old days of running a G19 with 127 +P+ out of a IWB holster under a Hawaian shirt and blue jeans? The intent has changed.... blasphemy! How dare you bring up actual facts and logic into an Internet forum discussion! Al Gore (the inventor of the Internet) will turn over in his grave .... you will be burned at the stake at the first opportunity ... please report to said stake at your earliest convenience and mail any STI 2011 firearms you have to my FFL .... thank-you for your interest in national defense .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Admiral Nimitz, I just checked the internet, Al Gore is still alive! The game has come a long way since Col Cooper required you to show up hot at his matches (more like training) in Lucerne Valley back in the late 60's. .45acp 1911, Milt Sparks IWB leather holster, leather mag pouch with 2 sticks facing opposite. Before plastic, before the Nationals..... check my post # 69 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=219035&page=3#entry2439548 Edited July 30, 2015 by 9x45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Production is what it is. Does not matter what the initial intention was. Tanfo's were built for production around the rules and that's that. The truth of the matter is at production nationals the winner will be who has the least amount of brain farts and makes the least mistakes. Do those guns give an advantage to the local scrubs, hell yes. But the top guys can shoot shitty guns like a berreta and win (: Has a CZ ever won an USPSA national? Not chitting on CZ it's a great gun, wish I had one. Questionable the most accurate pistol on the market. How come it hasn't won a title? Mink might have driven one to a third place finish at the Production Nats (part of the Factory Gun Nats) in 2003 -- when he was holding a B card..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Who is your pic for production nationals? I will pick JJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 No longer necessary for belt position as 5.2.3.1 now applies to Production Division. The use of magnets is prohibited but allowed under IPSC, I think. Outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Mink might have driven one to a third place finish at the Production Nats (part of the Factory Gun Nats) in 2003 -- when he was holding a B card..... I was at that match and Matt let me test the Vanek trigger on the Glock that he was shooting at the time. Edited July 31, 2015 by alma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I wouldn't count them out but I wouldn't put my money on them for a win, either. I'm not basing that off of the gun their using...Purely the competitor. Now if Nils showed up with a Glock... What about Ben? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Mink might have driven one to a third place finish at the Production Nats (part of the Factory Gun Nats) in 2003 -- when he was holding a B card..... I was at that match and Matt let me test the Vanek trigger on the Glock that he was shooting at the time. I forgot about that! I knew he was shooting and tuning CZs early on -- I think I played with a trigger he did for a friend on 2006 or so; but I forgot he used to shoot a Glock.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 "the original "intent" of IDPA....IDPA is the use of practical equipment including full charge service ammunition.... I think people confuse the original intent of idpa w/ production division.... I don't think USPSA Production was ever intended to only have newer shooters participate, but rather to give them a place to get into the sport w/o the Lim/Open equipment costs. The entire sport of IDPA was, however, intended for new shooters. This used to be in the idpa rulebook but was removed from the last revision: "One of the unique facets of this sports is that it is geared towards the new or average shooter..." So while USPSA Production was trying to get some of those shooters to join uspsa, I don't think the idea was that they should "move on" to Lim/Open once they got "above average." 2c -rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I would like to see a plastic gun win just because I would like to watch some heads explode. but it will really come down to the shooter. anyone's game, imo. I think a plastic gun winning could have an impact on CO final rule development... -rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 After looking at Bens hits at area 3. I'd like to change my pick to Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Two plastic guns in the top 3 at Nats. Can we give the "metal guns have an unfair advantage" argument a rest now??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Sure, if Ben can still beat them with a Glock vs Nils and Bob shooting Tanfos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJE Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Two plastic guns in the top 3 at Nats. Can we give the "metal guns have an unfair advantage" argument a rest now??? Within 1% no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Two plastic guns in the top 3 at Nats. Can we give the "metal guns have an unfair advantage" argument a rest now??? What gun was Nils shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkMyDuds Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Two plastic guns in the top 3 at Nats. Can we give the "metal guns have an unfair advantage" argument a rest now??? What gun was Nils shooting? AccuGlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 1.6462 match points, out of 2040 available, between 1st to 2nd is close enough to say you can win with a plastic gun. It is cool to look at the way the two of them got there. Ben looked to be taking the "I don't need to win stages I just need to do well on all of them" approach. His average stage finish was 7.8 with a Standard Deviation of 6.43. Lowest was 31 on stage 10 where he had a miss. To me it looked like Bob was trying to win every stage. but his average stage finish was 14.3 with a Standard Deviation of 34.39. The 157th place on stage 3 was a big part of the difference. He lost 32.7 points to Ben on that stage. Bob beat Ben on 12 of the 20 stages, Ben just never had that horrible stage. The gun did not have a lot to do with the win. The guy with the better approach to the whole match won. A very impressive win in a match stacked with a lot of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G T Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 1.6462 match points, out of 2040 available, between 1st to 2nd is close enough to say you can win with a plastic gun. It is cool to look at the way the two of them got there. Ben looked to be taking the "I don't need to win stages I just need to do well on all of them" approach. His average stage finish was 7.8 with a Standard Deviation of 6.43. Lowest was 31 on stage 10 where he had a miss. To me it looked like Bob was trying to win every stage. but his average stage finish was 14.3 with a Standard Deviation of 34.39. The 157th place on stage 3 was a big part of the difference. He lost 32.7 points to Ben on that stage. Bob beat Ben on 12 of the 20 stages, Ben just never had that horrible stage. The gun did not have a lot to do with the win. The guy with the better approach to the whole match won. A very impressive win in a match stacked with a lot of talent. Nice break down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Also, look at the number of A's for Stoeger versus Vogel, Jonasson, etc. Stoeger shot 351 A's for the match. Vogel shot 323. Jonasson got 333. Ben's approach to USPSA majors is looking similar to Jack Nicklaus's way of winning golf majors... play very well, but don't take a lot of risks, maintain consistency and let other folks knock themselves out. You will get clipped by someone absolutely burning the house down sometimes, but it's a good way to win a LOT of big events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 play very well, but don't take a lot of risks, maintain consistency and let other folks knock themselves out. From the first stage I watched on liveshots.net that is what I saw. Under control and precise the whole time. Just watch the top 3 on any stage and you can see the different approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Agreed. Stoeger's runs always looked... prompt. Not fast, just right on time. No screwing around, no fumbling, just hit spots, hit targets, move/reload, hit next spot, hit next array, unload and show clear. No tires squealing, no amazing recoveries or shooting while falling over. Just cruising. At high speed, but like a 7-series on the Autobahn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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