Thaunk Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 So I got married (yay!) and there's money left over (also yay!) and I've thinking about what to spend it on. I've shot some IDPA/USPSA and really enjoyed it in production/SSP so it got me thinking about what else I can do competition wise. I'm not going to reload, at least not the foreseeable future, so Open in out to my understanding. Then I thought, what about limited? The STI DVC Limited just came out and that could be fun. A couple questions. Am I going completely off my rocker? Is there anybody else about there I should look at besides STI or SVI? Do the rules change often enough in limited that a pistol I buy today won't be any good next year? I'm not planning to shoot any major matches, just local stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisix Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Congrats!!!! You should also look at the CZ Tactical Sports in 40. CZ Custom has magazine extensions to get to the same round count as the 2011s. The CZ with upgrades and mags will be a lot less expensive with out all the headaches associated with tuning mags. That's more money you can spend buying ammo and getting gooder. Ultimately it comes down to what feels best in your hand. Everything else is fluff. Edited July 28, 2015 by brisix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 First, congrats on the marriage! Second, I've shot Glocks, M&P's, and STI's in Limited. Currently shoot a custom STI and I really like it. However, if you are not reloading I would not recommend an STI. There are enough reported problems with STI's feeding factroy length ammo that you may (or may not) find you have feeding problems. For using onluy factroy ammo I'd suggest anything else. For less than 1/2 the cost of a DVC you can get a Glock or M&P, trick it out just about any way you like, get a bunch of mags with extended base pads, AND a bunch of ammo. Same is likley true for a CZ Tactical Sports but I have no direct knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisix Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I forgot to mention the CZ P-09 in 40cal with Cajun Gunworks upgrades for the internals and CZ Custom for mag extensions and magwell. The P-09 is one of the most accurate CZs and pistols in general out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The down side to shooting Limited division is the majority of competitors do not shoot off-the-shelf guns. There is a nearly endless list of modifications and enhancements one can do. You could also get Scott Springer, Springer Precision, to build a top notch Springfield XDM limited gun. That is the route I took, when I shot Limited division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) everyone knows the best shooters in the world shoot Production ..... just get yourself a G34 and spend all the leftover cash you have on ammo and a class from a top instructor like Stoeger or Skeeklander and sart winning Production division every month ..... Edited July 28, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racingjoe27 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Theres a few different ways you can go here. Since you didn't mention how much money you had left over (and lets be honest the new wife wont let you spend all of it anyway) this is what I would tell you... If you're only going to shoot local matches: 1. Use the handgun you already own in the division that it fits in (I'm assuming this is a production/ssp gun from your original post) 2. Get the gear you need for that division i.e. belt, holster, mags, and mag pouches 3. Start reloading. Not sure your circumstances that inhibit you from reloading for the forseeable future but I wish I would have done number 3 way sooner. I think a press and equipment will be more valuable than any new or different gun. Option 2 If you're definetly not going to reload is get a Glock 35 and shoot factory 40 (never thought I would ever hear myself recommend a glock). This leaves you the option of getting a 40-9 conversion barrel and some 9mm mags to go play in other places (3-gun, etc.) Only other thing I would add is that the STI DVC is too much gun to just go shoot a level 1 match once a month and as was stated probably wont run factory 40 anyway. Good luck and once you get hooked, don't forget your new wife! Edited July 28, 2015 by racingjoe27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Thaunk, shoot what you have a buy a reloading press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Thaunk, shoot what you have and buy a reloading press. +1. Don't buy another pistol, use whatever you're currently using. If it holds only 10 rounds - that's plenty for Production. Definitely buy a reloading press and chrono - not all that expensive and take some lessons - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARRYJ Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Get a 1911 and shoot Single Stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Congrats!!!! You should also look at the CZ Tactical Sports in 40. CZ Custom has magazine extensions to get to the same round count as the 2011s. The CZ with upgrades and mags will be a lot less expensive with out all the headaches associated with tuning mags. That's more money you can spend buying ammo and getting gooder. Ultimately it comes down to what feels best in your hand. Everything else is fluff. Excellent gun. I would stay with Production if your not reloading. 40 store bought ammo is a bit pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaunk Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Budget would have been smart. My budget is $3,000 from a personal sense. If I found something I liked, I could go another $1,000. After that we get into credit cards and I'm not ready to go there yet. I do realize that it's probably overkill in one sense for local matches, but that hasn't stopped the other folks from shooting limited or open. Honestly, a large part of it is I've got money to burn and want something cool. I've looked at various interesting, to me, revolvers, long guns, and pistols but thought I'd get the most utility out of a competition pistol. I do in fact shoot production and I have a Walther PPQ M2 and Glock 17 with 6 to 8 mags each and holsters for both. I sent a HK P30L off to Gray's Guns for competition work and I'll throw that in my bag at some point as well (if they ever finish it). Now over in the DVC thread they mentioned a place called Atlanta Arms that supposedly makes "match .40 caliber" ammo with one type specifically listing STI as the main consumer. The reloading issue is two fold. I don't have the space at home. I could possibly find space at the office, but that's a long shot. Secondly when I did my comparison of buying new versus buying components I didn't break even on .45 ACP until the 3rd use of the casing because my family is concerned about the health hazard of casting my own bullets. I'm close to my family so I have trouble arguing with them. Maybe I was buying the wrong components, or buying them from the wrong place, or wrong time? If somebody can show me it's feasible I'll happily go that route. I had a spec'd out Dillion XL650 ready to go in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcobean Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I'm reloading .40 for about 16 cents per round and that's buying bullets. Atlanta Arms is about 47 cents per round for their "USAMU Action Pistol Team STI" ammo, and that's before shipping. Do the math based on how much you shoot and you'll discover how quickly that xl650 would pay off. Having nice guns is awesome, but being able to shoot well enough to be competitive in competition is even better, and that takes practice. And practice takes ammo. I'm with the other guys...if you want to do this competition thing, buy a press. Won't take much space (I helped a buddy set one up in the bedroom in his apartment), so I'm sure you can solve that part. Edited July 28, 2015 by kcobean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 "I have a Walther PPQ M2 and Glock 17 with 6 to 8 mags each and holsters for both." Sell that crap off, add it to your $3K and you'll have all the cash you need for your new Open gun!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) you didn't mention how much shooting per year you plan to do so unless it's significnat (10k+/year) I'm going to tell you to forgo the reloading equipment ... there's a little more to it then just buying a press and cranking out ammo & if you're just going to shoot a local once a month or so I can't see the investment paying off. Like others said, just shoot what you already have in the division that fits and have fun & load up on factory ammo .... Edited July 28, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefight5243 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I have my new limited gun STI executive and love it. I shot production before and enjoyed it, but frustrated with the reloads. Limited took that away but as with everything it has its own newances. But a limited gun can be just about any of the ones out there that you will see in production but as Reshoot said very few are off the shelf guns. I have had my STI for couple months and already have the list of parts that I want to replace.... It's like golf, you may have a set that will work but this new driver that just came out and only costs 299.99 will clearly give me further more accurate drives.... Plus I get 1% back with the Chase card ( so practically on sale ) lol. Just have fun shoot and have a good time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michmalo Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I think the STI platform is the way to go for limited but agree with others that you need to reload your own ammo as they are finicky....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I agree with others that said that you need to buy a reloading press first. If you don't have the means to have a constant and steady supply of ammunition, you will never shoot well regardless of what gun you pick. Shoot whatever gun you like. Just shoot it a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Budget would have been smart. My budget is $3,000 from a personal sense. If I found something I liked, I could go another $1,000.... ........Secondly when I did my comparison of buying new versus buying components I didn't break even on .45 ACP until the 3rd use of the casing because my family is concerned about the health hazard of casting my own bullets. I'm close to my family so I have trouble arguing with them. Maybe I was buying the wrong components, or buying them from the wrong place, or wrong time? If somebody can show me it's feasible I'll happily go that route. I had a spec'd out Dillion XL650 ready to go in my head. So just food for thought... You can get a Tactical Sport, another mag, magazine extensions, the other goodies (~1400), AND a 650 setup (1128 per Dillon's website, so a total of 25-2600) and come out ahead over a DVC (2699 BEFORE magazines). With a TS you get a 1.75 trigger that will ignite any kind of hard primers straight out of the box, 21 round reloadable magazines that ACTUALLY work without tuning, more accuracy than you know what to do with, faultless reliability, and it will run factory length ammo without any hiccups. Best out of the box gun for limited I believe exists. As far as reloading cost goes, my 40 rounds cost 13.9 cents apiece (6.99 a box of 50) as opposed to 26.34 cents for Freedom Munitions (13.17 a box, and probably wouldn't run in your STI) or 47 cents apiece for 40 long from Atlanta Arms (23.50 dollars a box). According to my math, it takes 3,415 rounds of ammunition (or 68.32 boxes of ammo) for a 650 to pay for itself. 2,231 rounds for a 550B, or 1,698 rounds for a Square Deal B. The moral of the story? Reload. It's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 According to my math, it takes 3,415 rounds of ammunition (or 68.32 boxes of ammo) for a 650 to pay for itself. 2,231 rounds for a 550B, or 1,698 rounds for a Square Deal B. I don't like your math A reloading press is not an expense, but a depreciating asset and with Dillon's no BS lifetime warranty it doesn't depreciate that much. Let's say you buy all your reloading gear for $1,000 and after a year you could sell it for $900, the expense is $100, in which case the press pays for itself in less than half that time. That's what kills me about people stressing out about equipment purchases: you haven't "spent" anything, merely converted cash into gun on our balance sheet; if you buy used and look for good deals there's a good chance the gear can be sold at any time for what you paid for it. Consumables like bullets, powder, primers, fuels, and match fees are expenses (along with the depreciation of your assets as mentioned earlier). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 That is very true atlas. I bought my 650 with all the toys, 2 conversions and dies, quick change, etc for 900. And I bet I could turn around and sell it for exactly the same tomorrow. I was merely trying to illustrate how small of a cost it really is (3000 rounds to your run of the mill USPSA shooter is not a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaunk Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 I have my new limited gun STI executive and love it. I shot production before and enjoyed it, but frustrated with the reloads. Limited took that away but as with everything it has its own newances. But a limited gun can be just about any of the ones out there that you will see in production but as Reshoot said very few are off the shelf guns. I have had my STI for couple months and already have the list of parts that I want to replace.... It's like golf, you may have a set that will work but this new driver that just came out and only costs 299.99 will clearly give me further more accurate drives.... Plus I get 1% back with the Chase card ( so practically on sale ) lol. Just have fun shoot and have a good time. What parts are you planning to replace and why if you don't mind sharing? Budget would have been smart. My budget is $3,000 from a personal sense. If I found something I liked, I could go another $1,000.... ........Secondly when I did my comparison of buying new versus buying components I didn't break even on .45 ACP until the 3rd use of the casing because my family is concerned about the health hazard of casting my own bullets. I'm close to my family so I have trouble arguing with them. Maybe I was buying the wrong components, or buying them from the wrong place, or wrong time? If somebody can show me it's feasible I'll happily go that route. I had a spec'd out Dillion XL650 ready to go in my head. So just food for thought... You can get a Tactical Sport, another mag, magazine extensions, the other goodies (~1400), AND a 650 setup (1128 per Dillon's website, so a total of 25-2600) and come out ahead over a DVC (2699 BEFORE magazines). With a TS you get a 1.75 trigger that will ignite any kind of hard primers straight out of the box, 21 round reloadable magazines that ACTUALLY work without tuning, more accuracy than you know what to do with, faultless reliability, and it will run factory length ammo without any hiccups. Best out of the box gun for limited I believe exists. As far as reloading cost goes, my 40 rounds cost 13.9 cents apiece (6.99 a box of 50) as opposed to 26.34 cents for Freedom Munitions (13.17 a box, and probably wouldn't run in your STI) or 47 cents apiece for 40 long from Atlanta Arms (23.50 dollars a box). According to my math, it takes 3,415 rounds of ammunition (or 68.32 boxes of ammo) for a 650 to pay for itself. 2,231 rounds for a 550B, or 1,698 rounds for a Square Deal B. The moral of the story? Reload. It's worth it. This was something I meant to ask earlier. How exactly does one "tune" a magazine? And when you say TS, you mean a CZ 75 TS right? As to reloading my father said he'd give me some space if I wanted it so that may actually be a possibility. Did all you of start out with a Dillion or did you work you way up to it? A good friend of mine reloads and has cautioned me about having something like a Dillon because I won't learn the steps involved and may over/under charge a round with my lack of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EngineerEli Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Not sure why no one else has brought it up, but the Tanfoglio Limited in .40 makes a really nice limited gun. There are actually a few done up ones in the classifieds right now for reasonable prices. Couple that with a Dillon XL650 and again you would be cheaper than the DVC. I will admit that i shoot and SVI and absolutely love it. The only other consideration to reloading is the time it takes. If you're a family man, and time is at a premium, you need to weight your options. I usually just spend an hour or two and load up the ammo I need for the weekend some night during the week, so its not too much of a burden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I am almost with kneelingatlas. Sell the plastic crap off and order an SVI before you have kids and they suck your piggybank dry. I am sure they can make one that will run on factory ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Buy a press. That's the best purchase I've ever made for shooting. You can be into a simple single stage with everything you need to start for under 300$. Or spend the money on a 650, you won't regret any of them. Reloaded 9mm should cost 100-120$ per thousand just buying components locally and in small online orders. 40 will only be a few dollars more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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