bret Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Today a shooter was in a shoot house,,the R.O. and another guy followed him,,he should gave finished in a hallway but he ended up having to go back to retrieve a magazine he dropped during a reload. The R.O. got in his way and he got bumped inot by the shooter, he was able to retrieve his magazines and finish his stage,,although it was a safe run, it was slow and many issues. My question is should he have gotten a reshoot since tge R.O. got in his way? It was a slot series match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacy Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKenny Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 RO should have offered a reshoot prior to scoring. 8.6.4 In the event that inadvertent contact from the Range Officer or another external influence has interfered with the competitor during a course of fire, the Range Officer may offer the competitor a reshoot of the course of fire. The competitor must accept or decline the offer prior to seeing either the time or the score from the initial attempt. However, in the event that the competitor commits a safety infraction during any such interference, the provisions of Section 10.3 may still apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I thought he should have gotten a reshoot. I wasn't sure and not sure where in the rule book it was. I need to tab my rule book. I wasn't the R.O. just helping with the tablet to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Interference is an automatic re-shoot. Which club was this at? And what where the shooter issues? Not safety related or he would have been DQ'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 pretty straight forward ... if the RO didn't offer a reshoot I wonder what other rules he is not familiar with ...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Yes, he should have been offered a re-shoot. Interference is an automatic re-shoot. Which club was this at? And what where the shooter issues? Not safety related or he would have been DQ'd. "the Range Officer may offer the competitor a reshoot" The only one that is at the shooters discretion., "The competitor must accept or decline the offer prior to seeing either the time or the score from the initial attempt. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Not sure what his qualifications are as an R.O. but he does give very clear, concise range commands. I notice some C.R.O.'s being lax with rules, if a guy ditches a gun and it is loaded and not on safety or he holsters a 2011 without it being on safe and gives a warning rather than following the rules, it's not fair to the other competitors that may not get the same break. I haven't been through the class yet, but read the rule book a,few times, need to study it more. I thought he should get a reshoot but wasn't sure, so I didn't say anything. Now I will know and I will tab and highlight the rule in my book. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) We just cannot have a rules thread without controversy so here it goes: "8.6.4 In the event that inadvertent contact from the Range Officer or another external influence has interfered with the competitor during a course of fire, the Range Officer may offer the competitor a reshoot of the course of fire. The competitor must accept or decline the offer prior to seeing either the time or the score from the initial attempt. However, in the event that the competitor commits a safety infraction during any such interference, the provisions of Section 10.3 may still apply." It is not mandatory. Probably should be though... Edited July 12, 2015 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I can see a situation where May Offer would be used. Guy does it on purpose etc. I wasn't there but the norm is to offer a reshoot pretty much no matter what if you touch someone or get in their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 At no time was there a safety violation, the R.O. got out of the way, he retrieved his magazine, ended having to retrieve a second one and finish his stage. We scored it and since it was the last stage of the day and he was almost the last shooter,they let him run it again for time only and he did a lot better. I thought he should have had a chance to reshoot, but wasn't sure. Now I know for in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 KTM, It was obvious that it was not on purpose, plus if it was he would have asked for a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach1soldier Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 RO's should be aware of issues during a match and expect the competitor to do crazy crap....Like run back to retrieve or reshoot a mag. I hate seeing it, but I have seen it more then once where a competitor knows they blew it and runs back to some crazy spot they know the RO isn't expecting knowing they will get a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I had a stage where I screwed up and ran past 2 targets, the R.O. had a pretty good idea I would come back to them,,he kept everyone back and stayed out of my way because he anticipated what I was going to do. I had my Go Pro running so when I started moving backwards I saw in the video how he handled it and he did a good job anticipating what I would do. This R.O. didn't realize what was going on until the shooter started moving back and him and another guy blocked him. IMO if the shooter did it on purpose, he would have asked for a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 "This R.O. didn't realize what was going on until the shooter started moving back and him and another guy blocked him." If I were running the timer, saw a shooter coming back and I was blocked from getting out of the way be the scoreheeper-- I would probably holler STOP! before we all ended up in a pile with the gun pointed who-knows-where. And give the shooter a re-shoot. And apologize to the shooter. It can be a hard one to anticipate. I've been surprised by shooters, and I've surprised a few RO's, usually with some stupid move that seemed like a good idea at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 if it was a USPSA sanctioned match, when why was he going back to retrieve a mag that he dropped during a reload??? Your say that it was slot series match, not sure watch sanctioning body this is, but you really cant apply USPSA rules to another similar sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Interference is an automatic re-shoot. Which club was this at? And what where the shooter issues? Not safety related or he would have been DQ'd. It's not automatic. Reshoot may be offered by the RO... Then again, if the circumstances were exactly as the OP said, I would have offered one..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 if it was a USPSA sanctioned match, when why was he going back to retrieve a mag that he dropped during a reload??? Your say that it was slot series match, not sure watch sanctioning body this is, but you really cant apply USPSA rules to another similar sport. Needed it to finish the stage? Didn't bring enough? Poorly planned/executed reload? I've had doorways strip mags off my belt.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It's automatic that he RO has to offer a re-shoot, then it's up to the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 It was a USPSA sanctioned match. He had problems with some of his magazines, he was shooting production and his follower got hung up, probably from dirt. He is a good shooter just had issues with magazines, he didn't give up, he made the best of the situation. I am guessing the guy running the timer didn't know he should have gotten a reshoot, I thought he was allowed to, but wasn't certain so I didn't bring it up, I am not an R.O. I was just helping score, I was at the entrance of the shoot house scoring the 1st 4 targets, I stay way back and out if the way and don't touch anything the shooter dropped until after they have showed clear, hammer down and holstered,,in case they do come back for something. I will read the rules again and highlight and tab the rule book so I can find stuff quicker. I like to know where the rule is and not quote something from memory, I want to be able to quickly look it up and present what I think is the applicable rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It's automatic that he RO has to offer a re-shoot, then it's up to the shooter. Better re-read the rule. The RO may offer a reshoot, he is not required to do so...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It's automatic that he RO has to offer a re-shoot, then it's up to the shooter. I wish you were right here but you're not. I believe the rule is written the way it is to leave the ?RO discretion in figuring out if maybe something was intentional or whatever. Heck I have had RO's tell me I got in their head prior to running the COF and thought I should offer them a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The rule clearly says "may offer" which means it's at the RO's discretion. to me that is to allow for cases where it's just a light brush and doesn't effect the shooters performance. No point offering a re-shoot in those cases. I agree if the RO had no where to move since there was another guy behind him AND they were in a shoot house he probably should have yelled STOP and ordered a reshoot on the spot. As a shooter if I'm in a hallway type stage and suddenly need to back up in a hurry and know the RO is going to get trapped I'll usually yell "BACKING UP" and hope he can move fast enough out of my way. Conversely as an RO I try not to bring myself into positions where I'm likely to get boxed in, or box in a shooter. At the same time I need to see what is going on so it can be a fine line. In this case perhaps the RO deemed the contact wasn't material to the stage performance. It sounds like the stage was stuffed already due to mag issues so much so that a little brush with the RO made no difference? I'm not sure of the USPSA rule (I shoot under IPSC rules) but in IPSC if a shooter does the intentional 'bump into the RO' maneuver he can be DQ under the rule covering "unsportsman like conduct". From memory I believe USPSA has a similar rule on unsportsman like conduct. That would be appropriate for a shooter trying to get a reshoot by bumping into the RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It was a USPSA sanctioned match. He had problems with some of his magazines, he was shooting production and his follower got hung up, probably from dirt. He is a good shooter just had issues with magazines, he didn't give up, he made the best of the situation. Not having been there and reading this, I would NOT have offered a reshoot to someone that had been having these problems. The shooter was already in trouble and the bump just compounded existing problems. If he was having a great run with no problems, that is another matter. In this instance, I side with the RO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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