BARRYJ Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Well, perhaps we can say the pistol you shoot makes less difference than the amount (and quality) of your practice. CZ/STI/etc. isn't the be-all-end-all of competition, skill is. (That said, shoot the gun that you like most!) Or shoot the gun you get paid the most to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Well, that would be all of them? (Uh, no pay for any...but it's a whole lot of fun!) Edited July 1, 2015 by teros135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peally Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Well, perhaps we can say the pistol you shoot makes less difference than the amount (and quality) of your practice. CZ/STI/etc. isn't the be-all-end-all of competition, skill is. (That said, shoot the gun that you like most!) I made production A class with a stock HK45, and when I practice I'm still highly unimpressed with myself and see massive room for improvement. Practice destroys gun choice a million times over assuming it's something quality like a CZ, Glock, etc. Edited July 16, 2015 by Peally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) "....... assuming it's something quality like a CZ, ..... " see, it always comes back to owning a CZ ... Edited July 16, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peally Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 "....... assuming it's something quality like a CZ, ..... " see, it always comes back to owning a CZ ... Hah! By that I mean "not Hi-Point, Keltec, Lorcin, Jennings, etc" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racingjoe27 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) "....... assuming it's something quality like a CZ, ..... " see, it always comes back to owning a CZ ... Hah! By that I mean "not Hi-Point, Keltec, Lorcin, Jennings, etc" Gaston Quindi Vallegra is campaigning a Bersa Thunder Pro (or 20 of them) quite well... Somehow it always comes back to the Indian and not the arrow. My goal for 2016 and to steal a quote from Ben "I am a freight train from hell, headed straight up the ass of the competition"...with a plastic gun. We'll see how it works out Edited July 17, 2015 by racingjoe27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I beg to disagree that a cz is a quality gun. I observed a number of its models go south in the middle of match runs. Broken slide stops, trigger return springs, firing pins, are just the more common even on relatively new guns. Its ergonomics maybe good and its more of personal preference. But those mechanical parts are not. Edited July 17, 2015 by BoyGlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Strange, I have seen many Glocks go south in the middle of match runs. The only difference is that CZ owners will actually admit that their guns didn't run, and glock people will swear that the gun that just didn't shoot when they pulled the trigger, has always been flawless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I've had my CZ Shadow since Feb 2014, training 3x/week and 2,400 rds/month ever since ... the gun runs flawless .... my G34 never did that .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Look out Nimitz, The Glock lovers will be looking to lynch you as they "know" glocks are the only gun with "perfection" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 yeah, I used to think that too ...... before I bought a Shadow ... You don't know what you don't know Go to the range with a Shadow that has been setup correctly and you beloved Glock will be on GunBroker the next day ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Hi guys, my pen name here may have impressed you that Im a rabid glocker and a cz basher. Well, Im not on both counts. Im just sharing what I personally witnessed. But at least I inadvertently exposed your true colors Edited July 18, 2015 by BoyGlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 True colors? I was just telling what I have witnessed. I don't have a CZ, I just get tired of Glockophiles always talking about how Glocks never jamb and everything else does, when I know that not to be true. But you are right, I probably was swayed by your name:-) And I also notice that CZ/Tanfo is dominating production and I think the glock guys might be a little jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziebart Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I have had my glock malfunction, but I have never broken a part on it. My Cz75 has broken 2 slide stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Dominating could mean a lot of things but its mostly band wagoning common in human nature. It does not usually mean quality which my post was about. Glocks are far from perfect. I had extensively used it in and I was one of the few pioneers of it in IPSC Production, and specially in Standard and Open, and was modestly succesfull with them, but I never blindly sing praises for it. When Glocks were becoming popular in my place I usually caution would-be buyers about its cons more than its pros. Now there is a surge in CZs and Tanfos in PD but it does not and cannot hide the real quality of these brands or any brand for that matter easily unmasked by our high vol shooting. but the CZ parts are a different matter. They fail even at an early age. Its my guess its a design problem. I noticed its slide stop carries the whole force of stopping the barrel tilt in recoil. In 1911/2011 its the frame's Vertical Impact Surface and in Glock its the locking block fully imbeded in the frame w/c made both very sturdy. (But these platforms have also their share of quirks but parts breakages are less.) If you disect CZ's trigger return spring and firing pin its also not difficult to see it wont last much. Most of those that last have after market parts and work done to alter and improve these weaknesses. Still their success arent much. I tried to ride on this CZ bandwagon in its early stage. Years ago I was in the final stage of buying it. I handled and dry fired it repeatedly. Then and there I felt the pistol wont last a week,s dry fire for me. Back then I dry fire a lot to the tune of 1-2 hrs 6 days a week. It felt inferior in my hands. I cancelled the sale. Still a lot of my friends have it now. And it helped my premonition came to pass. And yes it now dominate the PD. Sorry guys if this ruffles your feathers. All I care about are the infos being shared in this great forum. Edited July 19, 2015 by BoyGlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 No feathers ruffled, and that was an informative post. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pevadijk Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 CZ's are just great! Here in Europe they have been popular for more than 20 years and they're tough and durable........over here even the old pre-B models are very common and still going strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I switched from a G34 to Shadow long before they began to "dominate Production". The combination of a heavy gun and smooth, crisp, light trigger is hard to beat, plus they are mechanically very accurate. Nothing wrong with Glocks but the Shadow is a better gun. You can compete in Open with pretty much any platform you want but there is a reason the 2011s dominates that division .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisix Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 BoyGlock I appreciate your opinion and thoughts on this subject. I will counter and say everything you brought up about stock parts is try true but everything brought up can be mitigated and have almost no impact to shooter in a USPSA match. First TRS, firing pin and firing pin retaining pin (on firing pin block) pistol can be replaced with aftermarket parts that are very reliable even when put up to heavy dryfire. That leaves the slide stop, that does break at varying levels but if you match your load to the correct recoil spring you can get an excess of 30k shots fired. Most serious competitors have two pistols, match and practice/backup. When the slide stop does finally break on the practice pistol, you move the slide stop from the match pistol to the practice pistol and get a new one for the match pistol. Even if you only have one pistol you can have a match slide stop and a practice slide stop. Plus I have no problem with CZ creating the weak point in their system with the slide stop. It's a $34 part that is easily replaced. I know quit a few people that replace their TRS as often as every quarter. Takes about 5min to replace with CGW floating trigger pin. Plus they are only $3. To sum things up everything you mentioned is true but can be mitigated to the point that you can have reasonable expectation of near 100% reliability at a major match or equivalent reliability of any other "reasonable reliable" pistol. Ultimately the market will decide which platform is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemoe83 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I lock Glocks a lot. I shoot a CZ now and will not being going back to Glocks but the Glock is a good gun for USPSA. It is at a disadvantage in IPSC because you can't tune them vary well with that rule set. There are definitely things that were easier with the Glock and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 And don't forget the CZ P-09 as a low cost (less expensive than a Glock) production gun that can be tuned to a Shadowlike trigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racingjoe27 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 New heat: http://www.bersa.com.ar/pistola-bersa-thunder-9-pro-xt-en.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 For the 2014 Nationals, just for Production Division the break down -CZ - 56/35% -Glock - 45/28% -Tanfo - 19/12% -S&W -15/9% -Springfield - 12/7% ( total responses were 158) With production being stand alone this year I think you will get a much better idea of what people are using and if I had to guess it would be 50% CZ, 20% will be Tanfo, 15% Glock, S&W 5%, SA & Sig less than 5% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racingjoe27 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I wonder what's putting the smiths in front of the springfields? Granted it was only three more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I wonder how different or similar is the trend in USPSA vs IPSC? Like, while I observe in online forums that in the US, Tanfo Stock 2 and 3 are very high indemand because of their scarcity, in IPSC countries these pistols are just as available as CZs and Glocks. At least in my country it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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