JatCarver Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 For the reloader/3 gun competitors. How slow are you pushing your 55gr loads. I'm fairly new to 3 gun but I've been bit by the bug. I've backed my loads down from 3000fps to 2850 and it does feel noticeably softer. I've ordered a adjustable gas block and JP Low mas BCG for my 18" (rifle gas) rifle and plan on playing with that but just wondering if I should try turning down the load a bit further. I just shoot the local matches and none go past 200 yrds. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Doc Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 2730 fps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JatCarver Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm considering dropping another full grain from my load which would bring it down to I'm guess 2700ish. I guess what I'm asking is how slow is too slow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 If yer shooting carbine style matches, that's fine. If yer shooting 3 gun where stages can have shots out to 300+, that can be a problem. Ballistics don't lie. Tuning a gas system for 2600 fps and 2950 fps is difficult. Then, throw in optics that have BDC. Good luck getting that to work with both loads. Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Without making any adjustments to my gas system I have pushed them as slow as 2620fps. I started to run into some problems such as the bolt will not lock back on last shot and also if you don't have the rifle good in your shoulder you can basicly "weak wrist" it, failure to feed, no issues with failure to extract though. I've tune my gun for 3150ish fps behind a 55gr bullet coming out of a 18" JP lightweight though Edited April 13, 2015 by DocMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I've run 55s from 2200 to 3200. Just a system with lots of adjustability. I would not be putting many full pop rounds through a system adjusted for .22Mag power levels. 2700 to 2800 is not hard to do at all and still be able to shoot a hotter load without issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Now I always thought that in 3-gun there was not really a power factor differential, but you still had to make the POWER FLOOR of 125 for pistol, 150 for rifle and 480 for shotgun. If we aren't even making power floor, why do we even bother shooting anything but rim fire. Has 3-gun become steel challenge? I hate to say it, but this disgusts me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Now I always thought that in 3-gun there was not really a power factor differential, but you still had to make the POWER FLOOR of 125 for pistol, 150 for rifle and 480 for shotgun. If we aren't even making power floor, why do we even bother shooting anything but rim fire. Has 3-gun become steel challenge? I hate to say it, but this disgusts me! I'm pretty sure shooting paper with a rifle under 100 yards isn't helping the situation, only way too keep people "honest" with their rifle setup is set steel targets past 200 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JatCarver Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 I've run 55s from 2200 to 3200. Just a system with lots of adjustability. I would not be putting many full pop rounds through a system adjusted for .22Mag power levels. 2700 to 2800 is not hard to do at all and still be able to shoot a hotter load without issues. Thanks Mark, I would only be running my reloads through it and with stages under 200 and most being less than 50 I see no reason why I would have to. Any suggestions as to where you might start? I thinking about trying 2500-2600 fps loads, Wolf reduced power spring JP LW Carrier and 1 weight removed from the standard carbine buffer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Now I always thought that in 3-gun there was not really a power factor differential, but you still had to make the POWER FLOOR of 125 for pistol, 150 for rifle and 480 for shotgun. If we aren't even making power floor, why do we even bother shooting anything but rim fire. Has 3-gun become steel challenge? I hate to say it, but this disgusts me! Don't be mad Kurtm. I do make power factor (156 for Rifle and 131 for pistol) when i shoot. Most of my testing and experimenting with these gamer loads is for some of the guys who shoot 3GN Pro Matches, which I do not. Funny thing is James shot full pop 77s the last two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I've run 55s from 2200 to 3200. Just a system with lots of adjustability. I would not be putting many full pop rounds through a system adjusted for .22Mag power levels. 2700 to 2800 is not hard to do at all and still be able to shoot a hotter load without issues. Thanks Mark, I would only be running my reloads through it and with stages under 200 and most being less than 50 I see no reason why I would have to. Any suggestions as to where you might start? I thinking about trying 2500-2600 fps loads, Wolf reduced power spring JP LW Carrier and 1 weight removed from the standard carbine buffer? Going to depend on what powder and the gas port. I have found faster powders to result in a wider operating window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Now I always thought that in 3-gun there was not really a power factor differential, but you still had to make the POWER FLOOR of 125 for pistol, 150 for rifle and 480 for shotgun. If we aren't even making power floor, why do we even bother shooting anything but rim fire. Has 3-gun become steel challenge? I hate to say it, but this disgusts me! Thanks for saying with I was thinking Kurt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Now I always thought that in 3-gun there was not really a power factor differential, but you still had to make the POWER FLOOR of 125 for pistol, 150 for rifle and 480 for shotgun. If we aren't even making power floor, why do we even bother shooting anything but rim fire. Has 3-gun become steel challenge? I hate to say it, but this disgusts me! Don't be mad Kurtm. I do make power factor (156 for Rifle and 131 for pistol) when i shoot. Most of my testing and experimenting with these gamer loads is for some of the guys who shoot 3GN Pro Matches, which I do not. Funny thing is James shot full pop 77s the last two years. With the beard James is sporting now, I'm surprised he's not using a Hawken rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Now I always thought that in 3-gun there was not really a power factor differential, but you still had to make the POWER FLOOR of 125 for pistol, 150 for rifle and 480 for shotgun. If we aren't even making power floor, why do we even bother shooting anything but rim fire. Has 3-gun become steel challenge? I hate to say it, but this disgusts me! Thanks for saying with I was thinking Kurt! 3 Gun Nnnnnnnalmost..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) I've got a load with 19.5 grs of H335 behind cheap 55gr bullets running about 2000-2100 fps and relaibly cycling a 14.5" gun with midlength gas and an 18" gun with rifle gas. Both using Youngs Ultralight carriers and gutted rifle buffers with most of the mass removed from the insides and replaced with lighter fillers. Works great for quick bay stages under 100yds. Edited April 13, 2015 by wgj3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45shooter Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Kurt I guess if that is what they hve to do to win let them do it. But it seems like a waste. Maybe regular 55 grain loads are too much for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Very few shooting HM run full-power factory loads. Why not download for the little guns too? Saves 20% on powder consumption (19.5grs v. 24.5grs). It equates to an extra 400 or so rounds per 8lb jug of powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JatCarver Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 I've run 55s from 2200 to 3200. Just a system with lots of adjustability. I would not be putting many full pop rounds through a system adjusted for .22Mag power levels. 2700 to 2800 is not hard to do at all and still be able to shoot a hotter load without issues. Thanks Mark, I would only be running my reloads through it and with stages under 200 and most being less than 50 I see no reason why I would have to. Any suggestions as to where you might start? I thinking about trying 2500-2600 fps loads, Wolf reduced power spring JP LW Carrier and 1 weight removed from the standard carbine buffer? Going to depend on what powder and the gas port. I have found faster powders to result in a wider operating window. I'm running wc-735 (5% hotter than H-335) its a fast burning powder. It's a factory DD 18" S2W barrel which I've read there overgased a little. I have ordered a seekins adjustable gas block thou. When I build my next 3 gun AR I will just use a barrel with small gas port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JatCarver Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 I've got a load with 19.5 grs of H335 behind cheap 55gr bullets running about 2000-2100 fps and relaibly cycling a 14.5" gun with midlength gas and an 18" gun with rifle gas. Both using Youngs Ultralight carriers and gutted rifle buffers with most of the mass removed from the insides and replaced with lighter fillers. Works great for quick bay stages under 100yds. Wow that's really slow! Are you using a adjustable gas port or just wide open gas at that low of a charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 And these are the same guys who make fun of the "Cowboy loads" that bearly make it through paper! We used to chrono stuff, but I guess that, along with painting long range steel, just can't be done any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I am torn on this. I don't see the point of establishing 5.56/.223 as the minimum cartridge and then having all the gamers download it to .22mag. Kind of defeats the spirit of the rule. On the other hand I shoot open (errr "unlimited") division, and if everybody else is gonna do it then by God I'm shooting 40gr bullets at 2,000! As long as the playing field is fair, I don't care what the minimum is. But I am not going to shoot something that is (however miniscule) slowing down my transitions just so I can beat my chest and grunt that I am more of a man. If they allow 170mm mags, I ain't gonna run 140s just to say I don't need em. Unless I get old and grumpy................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Kurt, if you bring the chrono, I will make ammo that passes muster. And, I will be happy to help paint the steel too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I work up an accuracy load for longer distances with 77 gr bullets then use the same powder charge for 50 & 55 gr bullets. With IMR 8208 xbr, the 77 gr bullets travel at 2605 fps average. With 50 gr bullets, that load sends them downrange at around 2750 fps. I only use the lighter bullets out to 150 yards or so on calm days. Accuracy is not the greatest but acceptable. Add a little wind to the picture and I run the 77 gr bullets for everything past 100 yards. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) It depends on perspective. If you are shooting a game to be rich and famous (sarcasm) then just like Belichick and Knaus, you are going to use ever bit of the margin to get what you can. I tuned several championship cars in several forms of racing. Ice picks in shocks of "stock" cars to drain the oil for a faster launch...when the sanctioning body figured it out...bye bye. Block of dry ice in a bladder in the fuel tank...when the sanctioning body figured it out...bye bye. In 3Gun, especially Outlaw, the trend seems to be acceptance of products and methods that push the envelope. If that seems "impracticable" then it is just a different viewpoint. I'll not judge either way, but gains within the rules are well, gaming I guess. USPSA Rules: 8.3.5 Power Factors do not apply to Time Plus scoring and there is no minimum power factor. SMM3G does not have a minimum PF either. Edited April 13, 2015 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) And these are the same guys who make fun of the "Cowboy loads" that bearly make it through paper! We used to chrono stuff, but I guess that, along with painting long range steel, just can't be done any longer. I seem to remember scaling up a side of a mountain Twice daily (once in the morning and another in the afternoon) to not only paint the rifle steel but to repair backers at RM3G last year.. Edited April 13, 2015 by DocMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now