Newbie Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Does anybody know the difference between a standard length Open and a shorty gun? I am getting ready to choose between the two and I'm not sure which one to pick. Matt Burkett says in his tips mail: "I am not a fan of the shorty type guns that have since regained popularity in the last couple of years. They appear to be extremely finicky, prone to more failure issues and require significantly higher pressure levels to make major. I can't think of any top shooters that now use a shortened open gun" . This kind of scares me since I will be dishing a lot of money out for a gun.... Advice please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Try to find a way to shoot an example of both. They do feel *very* different. You'd have to decide which feel works for you. Short guns do seem more difficult to get running reliably but it can be done. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Snyder Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 I was shooting a full size Open gun that I had built by Tony Kidd which was real light and then I had a 9mm shorty built by Bennie Hill. I have not had a problem with this gun running 100% and the loads that I use for Major are the same as I load for a friend that has a full size 9mm Open gun! We were both chronoed at the area 8 Championship using the exact same ammo and my shorty chronoed at 1499 with a 115 and his full size chronoed at 1502. The difference between the guns is that my shorty cyles faster but takes some getting used too as you don't have all that weight out there to help in swinging the gun. What we noticed also was that the shorty shot flatter than the full size. I have since sold my full size Open Gun and shoot my Shorty only. I Love it and I have no concern as to whether it is going to run as Bennie only builds guns that run 100%! They are not for everyone and it would be a good idea if you could get the chance to shoot both back to back in the same caliber so that you could make a more informed decision. 9mm Major as far as I am concerned is the only way to go as the brass is cheap and I don't cringe when I walk away from a stage. If you are having a STI built I will tell you right now that if you use SVI 38 mags with Gram's 38 spring's and followers you will not have any trouble with the gun running. I have seen people use the spacer's and STI mags and they are the one's that usually have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 He must be refering to the major 9 shorties. Mine is a 38sc and it is not finicky, nothing has broken and it will make major with the same load I shoot in my 5in gun. I have a Commander length gun and it has about 15k through it now without any kind of malfunction. I did have a couple of break-in issues but those are long gone. It does "feel" a lot different than a 5in gun. IMO, they are louder, kick harder and cycle faster. The louder and kick harder part does not bother me and I really like the cycle faster feature. It handles like a Limited gun. If you are interested in a shorty, I would suggest you shoot one and have a 5in gun there to compare it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDELLCUSTOM Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted February 19, 2005 Author Share Posted February 19, 2005 Thank you thus far for your responses. As you can see by my name I am new at this game, actually this is only the beginning of the second year of shooting a gun and all the terms and usages drives one crazy Has anyone shot an full size and shorty from Chuck Bradley, Brazos, Bennie Hill, etc. I'm curious about the comparisons. Thanks again. Newbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDELLCUSTOM Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 the short guns are not for everybody, some people like them and some don't. they are no less reliable than any other gun if they are tuned properly. i build alot of short guns for my customers and everybody seems to like them. i don't think they are any harder recoiling than my 5" guns but that depends on the setup of each particular gun. when i shoot my 5" gun with the titanium comp on it, it feels just like the short gun with the steel comp on it. when i shoot my 5" gun with a steel comp on it, if feels softer shooting than my short gun with the titanium comp on it. the one noticeable difference i see is that the short guns cycle faster than the 5" guns. there are alot of builders out there putting out their version of the short gun, my suggestion is to gather as much info as you can on the differences between the 2 length guns before you make a decision. there should be enough people on this site that can add their comments to this commonly asked question. some short guns are shorter than others based on the barrel and comp combination. a short gun built with a straight barrel & cone comp or a trubor barrel will be slightly shorter than a short gun built with a threaded bull barrel and comp. as far as making major with a short gun, it's no problem at all. with the right bullet and powder combination you will not see any pressure problems at all and no problem making major. i usually add 2-3 tenths of a grain more powder to the load for my short gun to make the same power factor as my 5" gun. if i shoot the load for my 5" gun out of my short gun, it usually has about a 2 point lower power factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Dan-When comparing your shorty vs. regular guns, does your shorty also have barrel ports? Cone or bull barrel comp? For reloading purposes, I have been subtracting 3-4 tenths of a grain when looking at the powder charges that guys who are using shortys are posting. I'm building a 5" 9mm with a threaded bull barrel and no barrel ports. I also add in a safety margin when starting up a new load. Your reloading experiences for both the shorty and regular barrels is really appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Dan-When comparing your shorty vs. regular guns, does your shorty also have barrel ports? Cone or bull barrel comp? For reloading purposes, I have been subtracting 3-4 tenths of a grain when looking at the powder charges that guys who are using shortys are posting. I'm building a 5" 9mm with a threaded bull barrel and no barrel ports. I also add in a safety margin when starting up a new load. Your reloading experiences for both the shorty and regular barrels is really appreciated. Thanks! Bull barrel, three holes: http://shootersconnection.com/store/images/shortygun.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDELLCUSTOM Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 i will add 2 small barrel ports if the customer wants them. i use a schuemann AET barrel which is a threaded commander length bull barrel and my own compensator. i shorten a gov't slide .700" and use a standard frame. i actually have a pistol just like you are building, it's a 5" 9mm using a schuemann ultimatch bull barrel and my titanium comp, no barrel ports. i also have been shooting my shorty in 9mm with the steel comp,no barrel ports, and i think it's just a bit quicker than my 5" gun. the short gun 9mm load is 8.2 gr power pistol w/125gr zero hollow point .355" bullet and i have also used 9.3gr vv 3n38 with the same bullet and had great results. the 5" gun load is the same bullet with 7.9 gr power pistol. the o.a.l. of both loads is 1.170", that is without spacers in the mags, with spacers you may have to go shorter. i also have another load using vv 3n37 but have not had a chance to chrono it yet and have a load of vv n350 to try also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDELLCUSTOM Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 :other post about the 3 holes shows an older picture, i now only use 2 holes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 :other post about the 3 holes shows an older picture, i now only use 2 holes Aha... got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Thanks a lot Dan. The comparison between the two pistols with the same powder is a huge help. You're one of the few with a 5" 9mm so your reloading data is just what I needed. Thanks for the photos Cullen, I havn't drooled over them is some time. Cheers, Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 If you're a newbie, you likely won't notice a difference short to long. Get something in the middle of the scale and you'll be plenty happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue edge Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Newbie, I have a major 9 shorty,and it runs 100% When I compare it to others ( 5inch ) mine shoots as flat, but it is faster target to target. NO PROBLEM making major PF !!!!!! I love my BEDELL SHORTY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to do it again? I would not change a thing.. MY 2 cents good luck and welcome to the darkside Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Just stopped by the Florida Open today. Saw many many shorty guns - all for sale brand new, or else in the holster of a class A-B-C-D shooter. FWIW. I will add that I've spoken with several shooters who have the Bedell shorty and they ALL said they like the gun and that it's completely reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I build both gun's. I like the 41/42 oz. 5" guns. They weigh the same as the shorty but shoot softer & flater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Newb, First I want to say I am definitely on the first steps of the open gun learning curve. I got my first open gun from Dan in November of last year. I was very much in your position. It seemed like the more I read the more confused I became over the newest option/newly found gunsmith/ latest gun of the gods etc. Invariably I came to the conclusion that there are tons of options and opinions out there and the only true way to find out what you want is to get one. You can shoot other peoples guns and get a feel for what you want but the reality is that with so many loads, configurations, and options the only way to get what you want is to get after it and get a gun. Now given this I would suggest you go for a gun that occupies the middle ground. I found the best way to get a description of the guns you are looking at is to call the smiths that are building them. They have done the experimenting for you and can guide your decision as to what may or may not be the best configuration for your needs. They know what loads work best in their guns, how they behave, the relative strengths and weaknesses of a configuration etc. Be honest with them as to your abilities and your expectations and in my experience they will be able to give you very effective advice. I can say firsthand that Benny Hill, Dan Bedell, Rich Dettelhouser and Derek Janowicz were all more than willing to explain their guns and options to me. (I owe them all a THANK YOU for their time) In the end all four had been so helpful that choosing one was very difficult. So far I am very happy with Bedell Shorty in 9mm and I look forward to learning the "DARKSIDE" Good Luck, Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 A good compromise in my experience. Mine has a few extra holes. I think the wisest thing to do is to try before you buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Had a tribrib once. So harsh and So much Muzzle flip. IT is so harsh the dot comes up out of the lens. I would have been better off putting iron sights on mine. It swung fast and pointed like a limited gun which is why I tried it. Might say it was my first try at a short gun. Dont think I need or can say anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Had a tribrib once. So harsh and So much Muzzle flip. IT is so harsh the dot comes up out of the lens. I would have been better off putting iron sights on mine. It swung fast and pointed like a limited gun which is why I tried it. Might say it was my first try at a short gun. Dont think I need or can say anymore. That is what the extra holes are for They tame the wild beast. If done right it is as flat as any other open gun I've shot, very similiar to the SX2 Pro (which 2 of the local guys I shoot with have) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I agree with Loves2Shoot. The Tribrid II is a great way to build a open gun. Short, light reciprocating parts, and easy to build. I shot an Open 40 for five year on one of these barrels, and then built in 9 X 19 Tribrid II, when that cartridge became legal for Open major. I do not see the harshness and mussel flip that Chuck discribes, and I use a Docter sight, that has a smaller window that most other sight systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 The first open gun I had was a shorty and in my ignorance I didn't even know what I had. I bought the gun from Benny Hill (he built it for himself) and it was a darn fine shooter, taking me into Master class in pretty short order. I even did OK in some steel matches. Then I tried a couple of five inch guns that were built by Steve Moore, and I shot a couple of older Caspians. I also shot an older Caspian that Benny tuned up for a friend of mine. I dumped the shorty and Benny is making me a five inch gun. OK, the short gun was accurate as can be, nuts reliable, and fast handling. It was also loud and somewhat abusive. I also found the dot fractured all over the place when I shot the gun in awkward positions. What good is a fast handling gun if I can't comfortably get a pair on a target with a crappy grip while shooting off balance? Some folks love the shorty guns and they do shoot. Personally, I will put up with 10 per cent more dot lift just to shoot a gun that isn't as harsh. Afterall, shooting is supposed to be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpowe Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I surely do like my Bedell shorty. I actually had to DROP my powder charge by 0.2 grains to match my 5" gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Nice lookin' Blaster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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