Graham Smith Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) It has moved from where it was before it was on your body (in your car, in your bag, etc..) to being on your body. I really can't see that interpretation. By that reasoning, if I take a mag pouch off my belt to fix something and put it right back on in the same place it was, then I have violated the rule. Again I have to ask, what problem is this rule trying to solve? As long as the mag pouch remains within the limits for the division, what difference does it make. How am I gaining an advantage by moving a mag holder from one legal position to another legal position. Edited February 24, 2015 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 It has moved from where it was before it was on your body (in your car, in your bag, etc..) to being on your body. I really can't see that interpretation. By that reasoning, if I take a mag pouch off my belt to fix something and put it right back on in the same place it was, then I have violated the rule. Again I have to ask, what problem is this rule trying to solve? As long as the mag pouch remains within the limits for the division, what difference does it make. How am I gaining an advantage by moving a mag holder from one legal position to another legal position. Wasn't there an issue at Nationals a few years ago where someone added a bag to their belt for an ammo pickup stage? A couple shooters had the same bag but since they wore it the whole match, it was allowed while those adding had to remove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) what difference does it make. Hmmmm....sounds familiar... Edited February 24, 2015 by racerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) what difference does it make. Hmmmm....sounds familiar... ???????? about people getting dead on her watch? Edit Took out name to keep it non political Edited February 24, 2015 by ktm300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Again I have to ask, what problem is this rule trying to solve? As long as the mag pouch remains within the limits for the division, what difference does it make. How am I gaining an advantage by moving a mag holder from one legal position to another legal position. I think the difference it makes is that this is supposed to be 'practical' pistol, where we choose 1 setup that works for everything, not customize the setup to different start positions. Seems like the same intent as using only 1 gun, not changing to a lighter gun for a stage with wide transitions, and switching to 1 with night sights for a shoothouse stage, etc.... 1 gun, 1 rig, shoot. It's obvious (to me) that the rule is not intended to cover you removing a mag pouch to repair or replace it if there's a problem, and is also not intended to prevent you from shooting classifiers in 2 different division, but just to prevent gaming your gun and rig for each individual stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 It has moved from where it was before it was on your body (in your car, in your bag, etc..) to being on your body. I really can't see that interpretation. By that reasoning, if I take a mag pouch off my belt to fix something and put it right back on in the same place it was, then I have violated the rule. Again I have to ask, what problem is this rule trying to solve? As long as the mag pouch remains within the limits for the division, what difference does it make. How am I gaining an advantage by moving a mag holder from one legal position to another legal position. My answer is simple.......if it doesn't make a difference then why would a shooter want to change rigs/holsters/pouches? I can (as others have) list a ton of examples where it can be beneficial to add or remove gear for specific stages. I am getting ready to shoot a weak hand only stage, I go to switch to my "WHO rig" which happens to have a left hand holster. According to the rules my weakhand is the opposite of the one I draw with......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 but if you tried to switch back and forth between a race holster and regular DOH holster depending on the start position, or if you wanted to remove some mag pouches for a stage where you had to get in a particular position and then put them back on for the next stage, that might be a problem. That WOULD be a problem. It's called cheating! Please clarify for explanation sake. Not disagreeing with you, just want a little more than "it's cheating". Seems like others have come onto the thread and used better explanations. A shooter should shoot the entire match with gear set up exactly as he starts the match with. A gamer would review the stages and possibly make an adjustment to his gear prior to shooting his first stage. If half the stages are unloaded starts with mags on table maybe add a few more magnets(where legal), etc. Making changes from stage to stage to make a rig better suited is not gaming, it's the other word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I am getting ready to shoot a weak hand only stage, I go to switch to my "WHO rig" which happens to have a left hand holster. According to the rules my weakhand is the opposite of the one I draw with......... Good answer. In this case, the change made gives the shooter a distinct advantage. Since trying to write a rule that depends on the interpretation of advantage is very difficult, there is a blanket ban. Of course, in this case, there is a also clear change in the holster from left to right hand draw, so it's not just changing the position. Edited February 24, 2015 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 For me the intent behind the rule is pretty clear -- however your belt is set for the first stage you shoot, is how it should be set for every subsequent stage in that match...... Want to carry two belts or strip mag pouches off for the prone stage? Knock yourself out -- but remember you could easily be subject to 10.6.1, if you fail to comply with a request to return your gear to normal status..... The real danger zone is if we notice you only have one pouch on your belt on the prone stage, and notify all stages down the line that you only have one pouch on your rig. Think you'll enjoy that on the 32 round stage with two Texas stars? And really, that's the best case scenario for you..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) I think the difference it makes is that this is supposed to be 'practical' pistol, where we choose 1 setup that works for everything, not customize the setup to different start positions. Seems like the same intent as using only 1 gun, not changing to a lighter gun for a stage with wide transitions, and switching to 1 with night sights for a shoothouse stage, etc.... 1 gun, 1 rig, shoot. It's obvious (to me) that the rule is not intended to cover you removing a mag pouch to repair or replace it if there's a problem, and is also not intended to prevent you from shooting classifiers in 2 different division, but just to prevent gaming your gun and rig for each individual stage. ^ THIS. I read the original question as being "Can I use a different holster for each stage so long as I mount it in the same place on my belt?". I would say that this is completely contrary to the intent of the rules (as so well stated above). Notwithstanding the letter of the law, I would say such a practice straddles the line between "gaming" and "cheating". Edited February 25, 2015 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 If you wore a race holster in front of a kydex holster you could use both without moving anything. Might be fun to do if you have a real anal range lawyer you want to mess with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 There's at least one person over at Safariland drooling right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 If you wore a race holster in front of a kydex holster you could use both without moving anything. Might be fun to do if you have a real anal range lawyer you want to mess with. How is it being anal to expect a shooter not to cheat by changing holsters to suit the reeds of a particular stage? I would still call you on the two holsters if I knew you were using both. Let the RM sort it out. But I would hope he would rule in favor of the intent of the rule. I also would hope he would not allow you to remove the unneeded holster from your belt as well. Saying you want to mess with an RO who enforces to rules is why some believe there is an us vs them mentality in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 If you wore a race holster in front of a kydex holster you could use both without moving anything. Might be fun to do if you have a real anal range lawyer you want to mess with. How is it being anal to expect a shooter not to cheat by changing holsters to suit the reeds of a particular stage? I would still call you on the two holsters if I knew you were using both. Let the RM sort it out. But I would hope he would rule in favor of the intent of the rule. I also would hope he would not allow you to remove the unneeded holster from your belt as well. Saying you want to mess with an RO who enforces to rules is why some believe there is an us vs them mentality in the game. Haha, you fell for the most obvious troll ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uzi Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 hello, in the ipsc can not use mor then one holster in the rule 5.2.7 but uspsa OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) I would still call you on the two holsters... I'm sure you would. But everyone already knew that. (see above) Horrible horrible CHEATER with his two holsters!! LMAO Edited February 27, 2015 by cas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 hello, in the ipsc can not use mor then one holster in the rule 5.2.7 but uspsa OK? Not sure if it's "OK"...don't think the situation ever came up...hence we don't have that specific rule in the USPSA rule book (that I know of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) I know when we were doing the MG rule book a couple years ago I floated the idea of allowing different holsters. Basically allow the shooter to pick their retention level. It did not go over well. The opinion of the BOD and DNROI at the time was changing holsters was not allowed unless you had equipment break. Edited March 3, 2015 by Chuck Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 He said "hooter retention". Hehe! Sorry couldn't help it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) He said "hooter retention". Hehe! Sorry couldn't help it. You might be in need of a trip to the range and blowing off a couple hundred rounds. You'll feel better. (Sorry, couldn't help it...) Edited March 3, 2015 by teros135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I know when we were doing the MG rule book a couple years ago I floated the idea of allowing different holsters. Basically allow the hooter to pick their retention level. It did not go over well. The opinion of the BOD and DNROI at the time was changing holsters was not allowed unless you had equipment break. Doesn't 2.2.4 say "Belts, holsters, belt-mounted magazine holders and speed-loading devices and any other equipment worn or carried by the shooter may be changed, repositioned or reconfigured between stages, provided that all equipment is in a rules-compliant configuration prior to the start of the shooter’s attempt on the Course of Fire" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Man my memory sucks these days. I think I might have asked about expanding that to the pistol rule book? Really don't remember at this point. But if they meant for it to be legal in the pistol rulebook, that's the language you'd see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Got it. Seems to me it's one of those things where it's more productive to pick one thing and learn it than to screw around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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