Light sub-minor 9mm load for the wife at the range

[EngineerEli]

Hey all, I have been researching this on the web for a few days with not really useful info. So I figured I would post my own experience for others.

My wife agreed to join me at the range for an afternoon of shooting for my b-day. She isn't crazy about shooting but goes occasionally for me. I want to make sure it is as enjoyable as possible for her, to hopefully make it a little more interesting for her. The two guns I plan to have her shoot are my 9mm STI 5" Eagle (and Tac-Sol Conversion kit) and my 9mm shield.

I want to come up with some really light 9mm rounds for her, I am thinking the fastest powder I can use is best. At this time it is WST. I also have a bit of 231, American Select, N320, and Titegroup. My standard minor load for limited minor in the STI is 4gr WST over a 124 SNS @ about 1.140". I figure because I am going to be going so low with the throw weight, to keep the chamber pressure up, I'll use my X-Treme 124 HPs. The plated bullet is a little slower than coated, therefor slightly higher pressure, and the profile of the bullet without adjusting my seating die from the SNS is down around 1.082" will also help with pressure, and complete burning for the powder. Last night I loaded 20-30 rds each of 3.2, 3.4, 3.6, and 3.8. My goal is just to have the gun cycle reliably with the lightest possible recoil.

Anyone have any other load suggestions, or experience with the loads I mentioned above?

I'll report back results after we go on Saturday.

-Eli

[rboyes]

My wife enjoys shooting my eagle 2011 with 124gr Bayou's over 2.8gr Clays at 1.150. My gun has a lightened slide and a very light recoil spring (7 or 8lbs) and it just barely cycles the gun. I forget the exact velocity but it was definitely sub minor.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Shoot outdoors only - use very good earmuffs & eye protection - and a .22.

Forget the Shield ...

You're on the right track - use The Lightest bullet you have (115's are little

better than 124's, but 124's are okay), and The Lightest powder charge

that will work your slide.

If you can (some ranges don't like it) - use reactive targets - lots more fun.

You might try to find out what she's "not crazy about" - try to change that -

usually the noise/recoil Shooting a .22 at reactive targets - Everybody

Likes That ... too much fun.

Good luck ... Hope you gain a shooting partner for life. :bow:

Edited October 17, 2014 by Hi-Power Jack

[EngineerEli]

That sounds like a real light load rboves. I am running a 9lb recoil spring, and I did put the factory main spring back in to improve the ignition of the rimfire ammo. The slide is tri-topped and it's a bushing barrel. Not sure how low of a charge I am going to make it though with that set up so we'll see.

She will have good eyes and ears, they are a must. I wish I could take her somewhere outdoors, but I don't know of any I can take her too without being a member near the northwest Chicago suburbs...

I may have some 115s that I collected while picking up brass at matches. When I find a full cartage I bring it home and pull the bullet. The press is still set to through 3.8, maybe I'll make a few of those with the 115s to see if there is much of a difference.

I definitely understand the logic of saying forget the shield (small/light gun = nasty recoil), but she has complained before about the grip being too big and the gun being too heavy. The shield is very slim and light, and I'm wondering if I can't make a light enough round to still cycle it. Honestly, while I am an experienced shooter, I have been amazed at how easy the shield is to shoot.

Don't have any reactive targets but I'm hoping to find some tick tack toe, or battle ship type targets. Or something fun.

She just grew up in an area where people look at guns and think the only reason for them is to kill people. I think she is just sort of generally scared of them... She has gone with me 3 or three times before. I wish I could help her to think of guns as I (most of us here) do in the way that they are tools for a sport, that we do to socialize, and improve ourselves. I'm not the best with words when it comes to convincing people of that kind of stuff. I pay my NRA membership, and leave that to the pros.

I would love nothing more than a shooting partner for life, but at this point her opinion is this is my thing, and what I do to have my own space. Which is valid to some extent. As long as she keeps joining me every once in a while, I'll be happy.

[jstagn]

N320 with 3.0 -3.1 check cycling of gun.

[rdinga]

Have you considered using 147 grain bullets. the slow push of heavier bullets is more comfortable for many than a faster snap. 3.6 grains of WST and the 147 of your choice is a nice mild, accurate and comfortable load.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I've been shooting for 60 years - love it - shoot 9mm major, .45 hardball

and a .41 magnum...

And, I HATE shooting anything indoors other than a .22.

If you want your wife to "enjoy" shooting, indoors, bring along a .22 -

leave all blasters home for that one day - you can shoot your Shield

the next time you go to the range.

Just a suggestion ...

[Joe D]

Here is a very soft shooting load. 160 gr lead or plated with 2.8 gr Solo 1000. It does make a 125 PF. Remember the heavier the bullet, the softer it will shoot. As others have said, leave the Shield at home. I am guessing the Tac Sol is a .22 conversion. That would be the best one to use. Every time I see a post from someone living in a gun unfriendly state I realize how fortunate we are in the South. I live 1 1/2 miles from one of the nicest outdoor ranges in the South.

[HI5-O]

What about using some of the light .380 bullets when you load your 9?

[peterthefish]

What about using some of the light .380 bullets when you load your 9?

I tried using some 90 grain JHPs for an open minor load. At 125 PF recoil was brutal. I'll second some 147 GR bullets and some N320 or Titegroup.

[CZ85Combat]

if you want her to shoot with you get her small light 22, one that fits her hand with 4" - 6" barrel. Forget about the 9mm STI 5" Eagle (and Tac-Sol Conversion kit) and 9mm shield. They are to big &/or heavy for her, she will not have a good time using them.

[atvman400]

What about using some of the light .380 bullets when you load your 9?

I tried using some 90 grain JHPs for an open minor load. At 125 PF recoil was brutal. I'll second some 147 GR bullets and some N320 or Titegroup.

Why do people keep bringing up minor? The OP said nothing about having her shoot a match just going to the range to shoot for his b-day. This means he can run as slow of a velocity as he can as long as it cycles the slide. Single shot just isn't going to be much fun.

I agree with using .380 bullets if you really want her to shoot 9 otherwise a 22 with a red dot. That's almost day one of physic's class. Lightest object going the slowest will give you the least recoil with all other conditions the same.

[peterthefish]

What about using some of the light .380 bullets when you load your 9?

I tried using some 90 grain JHPs for an open minor load. At 125 PF recoil was brutal. I'll second some 147 GR bullets and some N320 or Titegroup.

Why do people keep bringing up minor? The OP said nothing about having her shoot a match just going to the range to shoot for his b-day. This means he can run as slow of a velocity as he can as long as it cycles the slide. Single shot just isn't going to be much fun.

I agree with using .380 bullets if you really want her to shoot 9 otherwise a 22 with a red dot. That's almost day one of physic's class. Lightest object going the slowest will give you the least recoil with all other conditions the same.

As an example of how the idea that using a light bullet is best is wrong for this application.

Let's say you need to make 105 PF to cycle the slide. A load making 105 with a 147 GR bullet will be much softer shooting than with a 100 GR bullet.

Sure, a 90 GR bullet at 650 FPS would be a soft shooter, but it ain't gonna cycle the slide.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: 3.1 grains of Tite Group and a 115 grain bullet is a soft shooter. 3.1 grains of WST and 124 grain bullet is another good one. You may need a 8lb ISMI recoil spring for these lighter loads. Thanks, Eric

[EngineerEli]

Hey all, thanks for all the replies and ideas!

To my amazement the 3.2gr WST loads under 124 xtremes were able to cycle the slide on my shield! Ran great all except one failure to lock back on an empty chamber, probably her limp wristing it though. I figure if the load worked in the stock shield it will definitely work in the eagle. I'll have to try 2.8 and 3.0 next time I go to the range. I do agree with a few of you though I think the heavier bullet at very low PFs is necessary to get the gun to cycle. There may be less chamber pressure, but as long as you can keep the barrel pressurized a little longer it seems to help reliability. I will definitely have to try some 147s I think I have a few I have pulled. Or I'll buy a box of 500 next time I put in an order. I don't personally prefer the recoil impulse at minor PF for my own competition shooting.

I started her out with my Eagle with the .22 Tac-Sol conversion. She seemed to have fun with that. We even shot the Illinois concealed carry test (happened to be the targets we bought) and she passed, lol! I was shooting the shield while she was shooting the Eagle, and she seemed to showed a little interest in the shield, so I loaded up a mag with a single 3.2gr round in it and let her pop it off. (All of her shots with the shield were going way low) She surprisingly wasn't scared off. I know other guns would have been better, especially the eagle with the 9mm upper on it would have been a much better idea but I forgot I had brought it with. I was just so surprised she was shooting 9mm and doing ok with it. She went through a few 5rd loaded mags with the shield. After that I brought out my dedicated .22 AR, but it has a 20" bull barrel on it and it was just too heavy for her. I though she would like the scope, but she wasn't wowed.

All in all a pretty good range trip. Sadly she still doesn't love it, she still says "guns are for killing and I don't like them, but I'll go with you every once in a while." Not sure how to help change that. Part of it may have been a lady who's gun handling was terrible a few lanes down from us and scared us both a few times... Either way she seems to be more and more willing to tolerate it each time we go. I think I realized a big part of what was probably a big issue in the past was the noise. With long hair the muffs don't seal well around her ears. When we realized this we left the range and i gave her some foam plugs to put in. And after looking at her, she didn't put them in anywhere near right. I put them in for her properly, and when they sealed off and everything went quiet, she made a little smile like she had never experienced that before. I'm worried about how loud it must have been in the past, and when she came with me to the trap range... We put the muffs on over the plugs and she didn't seem phased by the noise any more, or the guy ripping off shots with his .40 or .45 a few stalls down. Next step needs to be shooting outside, and/or going to a private range where there aren't other strangers shooting right next to us, and where we can use fun reacting targets. I was telling her about plate racks and dulling trees and poppers and she sounded a interested.

Good luck to everyone else trying to get their significant other to shoot with them! For me it's a work in progress...

-Eli

[EngineerEli]

Oh, BTW, the 115's I loaded up with 3.8gr WST, which should have still been way be low minor PF, were surprisingly snappy! In the shield at least, and in comparison to the 124's.

[v1911]

Those 115s over 3.0gr of N320 would be nice sub minor load.

Edited October 20, 2014 by v1911

[polizei1]

4gr of 231 with a 124 at ~1.140" will get you pretty close, in this case, start at 4gr and work down.

Edited October 21, 2014 by polizei1

[Breacher217]

3.25gr of WST with a SNS 147gr FP w/o lube groove loaded to 1.160 OAL makes 128 PF in my 6" 2011. I'm currently running a 7lb recoil spring. The load is very mellow and not very loud.

[daves_not_here]

First time I took my wife shooting I started her out with a .22. She soon said "I want to shoot a real gun now."....Glock 22 with .40 S&W factory. She was doing nice doubles, not a hint of flinch or glockitis.

I'd suggest you borrow a .22 to introduce sight picture, sight alignment and trigger pull. Having gun malfunctions no fun on the first time out.

Don't be surprised if you spend the rest of the session stuffing magazines.

My wife can shoot well, doesn't have any interest in pursuing it but she encourages me to shoot.

DNH

[EngineerEli]

I definitely agree with you Dave. I did start her out Saturday with my tac-sol 22 conversion on my STI eagle lower. She was shooting that like a champ. She has been shooting 2 or 3 times before. I offered for her to shoot a 'real bullet' and totally forgot the 9mm upper for the eagle in my range bag. She was still able to handle the powder puff 9mm loads I made in the shield though. As I mentioned to my surprise they cycled no problem. Thinking more about it now, her low hits were probably because she went from a 3lb in the eagle trigger to a 5lb one in the shield...

[daves_not_here]

She'll probably want to shoot your eagle...gonna have to buy one for her!

Good to hear that the shield could handle light loads. That gives confidence in being reliable for a defensive situation where a bad grip is all that there's time for.

DNH