P.E. Kelley Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I have personally vowed to NOT ever be involved with the Heavy discussions again but damn people that division is all but dead! Make it one division! 308 rifle 20 rounds. (I don't want scopes but you all do so fine) Pistol 10 round Forty free kin Five! I know without a chrono minor loads of 45/40 or even 9 makes little difference but heavy should at least outwardly look heavy! Shotgun here is the change I would like to see...Auto 8+1 MAX at all times. PUMP 10+1 only at start. ONE Heavy division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I like this as an equipment set for Heavy Metal. I used to shoot this on occasion, but I need optics now so if we include optics, i just might give this a try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfSpartans Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I have a question. If division capacity is 8+1 what is done with a WSB that stages the shotgun on an empty chamber? Should that mean eight in the tube or 9? It seems to me that putting nine in (what I normally see) is 9=0 capacity. That is the advantage that I was up against with an eight round tube. When I racked the slide I had eight to shoot. Typically eight in the array. One miss and I was needing a port load. The longer tube gunners had a spare. Now, I know some places will stage a shotgun hot with the safety on That is why I put a plus three tube on. Note. My comments are not just about limited but even tac-ops. Start is the same in those divisions where I shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I have personally vowed to NOT ever be involved with the Heavy discussions again but damn people that division is all but dead! Make it one division! 308 rifle 20 rounds. (I don't want scopes but you all do so fine) Pistol 10 round Forty free kin Five! I know without a chrono minor loads of 45/40 or even 9 makes little difference but heavy should at least outwardly look heavy! Shotgun here is the change I would like to see...Auto 8+1 MAX at all times. PUMP 10+1 only at start. ONE Heavy division I'd probably go back to Heavy with these rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I have a question. If division capacity is 8+1 what is done with a WSB that stages the shotgun on an empty chamber? Should that mean eight in the tube or 9? It seems to me that putting nine in (what I normally see) is 9=0 capacity. That is the advantage that I was up against with an eight round tube. When I racked the slide I had eight to shoot. Typically eight in the array. One miss and I was needing a port load. The longer tube gunners had a spare. Now, I know some places will stage a shotgun hot with the safety on That is why I put a plus three tube on. Note. My comments are not just about limited but even tac-ops. Start is the same in those divisions where I shoot. That is why some matches, ours included, require just 8 in the tube on a empty chamber start. Reasoning is, general rules say other than Open, all shotguns must start 8+1. Empty chamber start? Remove the +1, start with 8... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I have personally vowed to NOT ever be involved with the Heavy discussions again but damn people that division is all but dead! Make it one division! 308 rifle 20 rounds. (I don't want scopes but you all do so fine) Pistol 10 round Forty free kin Five! I know without a chrono minor loads of 45/40 or even 9 makes little difference but heavy should at least outwardly look heavy! Shotgun here is the change I would like to see...Auto 8+1 MAX at all times. PUMP 10+1 only at start. ONE Heavy division Pat, I don't care if it's one or two Heavy / He Man divisions. I play it at least once a year. I would prefer that that all the matches specify, as you do, .308 Winchester as a minimum. At least one just says .30 caliber. The 8 rounds for auto and 10 to start with a pump is an interesting twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 With no chrono, In comes the powder puff rifle loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 With no chrono, In comes the powder puff rifle loads. Probably, but with a 20 round mag limit and muzzle brakes being as good as they are these days, I don't think they would really be that much of an advantage. Nobody's winning matches on rifle splits anyway (i wish they were, I'd be finishing higher.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 This conversation is like having a conversation with my grandma.... she liked Lawrence Welk and I like AC/DC. I say quit arguing about saving pennies at a dollars expense. If you want to make change then argue for something that makes a little bit of sense....modified tacops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 I don't care what happens to tac ops unless they decide to make it 1x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Since the clocks changed, but My internals haven't caught up... Equipment Rules Tac Iron NO optics 30 rounds in rifle mags 140MM pistol mags (170 for Single Stack) 8 rounds in mag tube on SG, no mag fed SG, no ‘ghost loads’. (Matches may allow longer tubes) Min Calibers: .223/5.56 Nato, .9mm, 12Ga. No porting of Pistol or SG No Bi-pods Tac Optic One Optic allowed on ANY gun. i.e., you can choose a dot on your pistol, but then you have only irons for rife and SG. Bi-pods allowed, but remain on the rifle through out the match. All else remains the same as TI Heavy Metal One Optic allowed on ANY gun. i.e., you can choose a dot on your pistol, but then you have only irons for rife and SG. Bi-pods allowed, but remain on the rifle through out the match. 20 rounds in rifle 10 rounds in HG Mags 8 rounds in mag tube on SG, no ‘ghost loads’. Min Calibers: .308/7.62 x 59 Nato, .45ACP, 12Ga. Open Minimum Calibers as in TI All else is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 If we are going to limit rifle magazines we need to limit pistol magazines as well! After all there would be no separation between a Tac-Optics pistol and a Limited pistol. We need clear equipment divisions...so it seems....so lets limit pistols to a 126mm magazine in Limited (140mm for single stack). We would now have a CLEAR division of equipment between Limited and Tac Optic. Down loading WOULD NOT be allowed as we need them to look, feel, and BE different While we are at it we need to limit battery size and screen size for the 1X dots. After all a Tac-Optic/Open red dot shouldn't be the same as a Limited red dot. Now lets talk about shirts. A limited shooter shouldn't be allowed as many sponsors on his shirt as Tac-Optics or Open shooters. We should limit that to 4 I think. One each for the respective firearms, and one for what ever. And Shoes....how about what ever can be bought off the shelf at an Academy, not any of these Solomon Speed cross racers or fancy cleats! Pants, we need to limit the number of pockets.....since we have 4 sponsors lets have 4 pockets. None of this fancy 5.11 stuff!!! Hats would have to meet certain limiting requirements such as a bill no longer than 3" and no more than 6 1/2" wide. No Boonie hats allowed in this division! Shooting glasses would of course be smaller than Tac-Optic/Open Glasses and, if prescription, only have the correction in the dominant eye side, not both lenses. Oh and I almost forgot....No sun screen over SPF-15, After all this IS LIMITED!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentsight Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 ^^^Finally a voice of reason, well played sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyinTX Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 If we are going to limit rifle magazines we need to limit pistol magazines as well! After all there would be no separation between a Tac-Optics pistol and a Limited pistol. We need clear equipment divisions...so it seems....so lets limit pistols to a 126mm magazine in Limited (140mm for single stack). We would now have a CLEAR division of equipment between Limited and Tac Optic. Down loading WOULD NOT be allowed as we need them to look, feel, and BE different! I agree but as long as we are limiting rifles and pistols to "Factory Standard" magazines we have to limit the shotgun to that as well. 8+1 is extended capacity on most shotguns so we must have factory mag tube lengths only, no after market tubes. Got to keep us scurvy limited shooters separated from the Tac-ops shooters. I guess my pale Irish skin will get me bumped from the class though because SPF-15 is barely adequate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Kurt, I know you are arguing to the absurd to prove your point, and I greatly appreciate your enthusiasm and participation in this discussion. There are two problems with arguing that way, the first is that there are those that think you are serious and lack the capacity to understand your point. The second is that there are some whack jobs out there (me) that like absurd, I embrace it. There was an off hand mention in a recent thread that we should have a 100 yard run to the first shooting position. It was meant to be another absurd argument, but I like it. I have often said that I want Amercan ninja crazy shit in stages, I am game to try most anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) I am very much against limiting magazine CAPACITY or ROUNDS LOADED for pistol or rifle. ROs can barely manage to keep track of rounds loaded at start for Tactical shotguns. I just got back from working the IPSC World Shoot, and counting the rounds fired for Classic and Production divisions was very tiresome... I would be willing to bet most ROs did not bother, and that extra rounds slipped past them from time to time. If we must go down this path, do it by magazine size (gage, box, whatever). Edited November 2, 2014 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Hey Stlhead....I was serious about the sun block thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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