When do you upgrade guns?

[ThePeanutGallery]

A little background - I started shooting matches this year, got my membership and have been classified C in Limited, should be B rather soon.

I'm running an XDM in 9mm, and am wondering when you start considering buying a different gun for the sake of competition, IE a 2011.

I know I'm at a disadvantage shooting minor, but I'm curious as to how big that difference really is. Any thoughts or observations for a rookie who wants to improve?

Thanks.

[zhunter]

If you're going to shoot Limited, you need to upgrade your caliber! Minor scoring in Limited doesn't work.

[MarkCO]

I actually post worse scores with 2011s than Glocks and M&Ps, so shoot some before you drop the coin.

Going from minor to major will improve your HF a little, but not enough to make a huge difference. Realize that the top dogs are shooting well into the 90% of points in minor anyway. Look at your match points, are you shooting 90% or more of points on a regular basis? If not that is a better goal that spending money. Top shooters lose about 3-5% when they go minor at a major match.

When you go to major, your grip strength and geometry is more important and most B/C shooters if they are honest, will shoot about the same scores with minor as with major on speed shoot type stages.

It is more about want than need. Some of the top GMs are shooting pistols that most A and M class shooters would say won't work, but they do. If you really like your XDm and shoot it well, try a XDm in .40 and see what you think.

[ThePeanutGallery]

...

Going from minor to major will improve your HF a little, but not enough to make a huge difference. Realize that the top dogs are shooting well into the 90% of points in minor anyway. Look at your match points, are you shooting 90% or more of points on a regular basis? If not that is a better goal that spending money. Top shooters lose about 3-5% when they go minor at a major match.

When you go to major, your grip strength and geometry is more important and most B/C shooters if they are honest, will shoot about the same scores with minor as with major on speed shoot type stages.

...

That's exactly what I was looking for. I know I'm not in that 90% area just yet, so that kind of gear wouldn't really offer an improvement.

As for the 2011 - One of the local guys let me shoot his Brazos Pro Limited and the things that really hit me were the trigger and the way it handles recoil. I might just be a little infatuated right now, but after shooting that thing - I was online looking for used guns. Which is how I ended up registering for this forum.

So at least some good came out of that decision...

[Hi-Power Jack]

I have been classified C in Limited, should be B soon.

considering buying a 2011.

Any thoughts for s rookie who wants to improve?

MarkCO has a lot more experience than I have, and brings

up some excellent thoughts,BUT, it seems to me

if you want to put in the work to get from a B to an A, soon,

I would think you would be well served to get yourself the STI .40,

take some classes and buy training books, put together a training schedule

and dry fire/ live fire the snought out of that puppy.

Just my humble opinion. Can't see how you'd go wrong with that combo.

[MarkCO]

The 2011 is obviously the best overall platform for the game, so if it fits you and you can shoot it at full speed with accuracy better than your XDm, spend that coin.

[hercster]

I know STI and the 2011 dominate in terms of popularity but there are options in the Tanfoglio models. In terms of cost it might be an easier path. There are quite a few shooters that do well with the Tanfos. Maybe some of them here will speak up. I do know that my Tanfo LC Xtreme shoots better for me than anything I've owned up to now. Being in Canada with the ten round mag limit and shooting a very well behaved pistol like the Tanfo is pretty neat.

[Steve RA]

Usually happens when someone saves up the money for the upgrade !!

[Ultimo-Hombre]

If you're going to shoot Limited, you need to upgrade your caliber! Minor scoring in Limited doesn't work.

I believe this is opinion not fact and I disagree with it.

I've had my ass kicked at matches by guys shooting minor. Now they were very skilled and would have beat me even bigger shooting major, but to say it doesn't work is false.

[Supermoto]

If you're going to shoot Limited, you need to upgrade your caliber! Minor scoring in Limited doesn't work.

I believe this is opinion not fact and I disagree with it.

I've had my ass kicked at matches by guys shooting minor. Now they were very skilled and would have beat me even bigger shooting major, but to say it doesn't work is false.

It doesn't work when you are shooting against shooters of equal skill.

[Aglifter]

I think trying to swap it for an XDm in 40 would be an excellent idea - have you had the trigger worked over? Installed a narrower front sight? (Both things I did on my XDm, which I really liked.)

Other than the major v. minor, if you run the XDm well, I'm not sure there's that much reason to change - at least, below M.

[Nimitz]

While you can always buy a better gun than the one you have (unless you already own a CZ Shadow ) you would be far better off spending your money on taking a class from the likes of Stoeger, Anderson or Seeklander than trying to buy your way to better scores.

$350 for a 2-day class will literally save you years of frustrating training trying figure out ths stuff on your own.

Until you can shoot 90%+ points at a match on command I don't really think your gun is holding you back ....

[motosapiens]

If you're going to shoot Limited, you need to upgrade your caliber! Minor scoring in Limited doesn't work.

I believe this is opinion not fact and I disagree with it.

I've had my ass kicked at matches by guys shooting minor. Now they were very skilled and would have beat me even bigger shooting major, but to say it doesn't work is false.

It doesn't work when you are shooting against shooters of equal skill.

I think major is generally an advantage, but not a huge one for an accurate shooter.

At any rate, it sort of depends on what your goal is; do you want to win the motorhome that goes to top limited C at your monthly match? or do you want to improve your skills and be a better shooter?

I think you can develop as a shooter and do well shooting minor, and switch to a new gun and major whenever you feel like it. Could be right now, could be next year. for sure there are lots of good choices in limited, not just the popular herd choice. Some of them are much more reasonably priced than the popular herd choice too.

but whatever, if the money is not a problem, you should go buy a new gun right now, and take a class next week, and dryfire every day.

[MarkCO]

If you're going to shoot Limited, you need to upgrade your caliber! Minor scoring in Limited doesn't work.

I believe this is opinion not fact and I disagree with it.

I've had my ass kicked at matches by guys shooting minor. Now they were very skilled and would have beat me even bigger shooting major, but to say it doesn't work is false.

It doesn't work when you are shooting against shooters of equal skill.

Actually, through stage design, I could make it so the minor shooter will always beat the major shooter of equal skill level. It works just fine at a well balanced match too.

[hercster]

If you're going to shoot Limited, you need to upgrade your caliber! Minor scoring in Limited doesn't work.

I believe this is opinion not fact and I disagree with it.

I've had my ass kicked at matches by guys shooting minor. Now they were very skilled and would have beat me even bigger shooting major, but to say it doesn't work is false.

It doesn't work when you are shooting against shooters of equal skill.

Actually, through stage design, I could make it so the minor shooter will always beat the major shooter of equal skill level. It works just fine at a well balanced match too.

Now you have me. Please explain how you would work that magic as I can't imagine.

[2MoreChains]

If you're going to shoot Limited, you need to upgrade your caliber! Minor scoring in Limited doesn't work.

I believe this is opinion not fact and I disagree with it.

I've had my ass kicked at matches by guys shooting minor. Now they were very skilled and would have beat me even bigger shooting major, but to say it doesn't work is false.

It doesn't work when you are shooting against shooters of equal skill.

Actually, through stage design, I could make it so the minor shooter will always beat the major shooter of equal skill level. It works just fine at a well balanced match too.

Yep, easily done. Its called an all-steel stage!

A while back I decided for S&Gs I was going to shoot Limited minor at a local match. More or less same gun that I normally shoot Limited with, just in 9mm. It wasn't the most controlled experiment as there were too many variables and I may have been having a bad day but it didn't change my stage times very much and my HF's were down more than usual, which told me minor was not allowing me to shoot fast enough to offset my loss in points from minor PF scoring.

For the OP, the right time to get a new gun is when ever you get it into your brain that a new gun is needed/wanted. There's no need to justify it to the rest of us or even yourself. Buy what makes you happy, and maybe in doing so it motivates you to practice more.

[2MoreChains]

If you're going to shoot Limited, you need to upgrade your caliber! Minor scoring in Limited doesn't work.

I believe this is opinion not fact and I disagree with it.

I've had my ass kicked at matches by guys shooting minor. Now they were very skilled and would have beat me even bigger shooting major, but to say it doesn't work is false.

It doesn't work when you are shooting against shooters of equal skill.

Actually, through stage design, I could make it so the minor shooter will always beat the major shooter of equal skill level. It works just fine at a well balanced match too.

Now you have me. Please explain how you would work that magic as I can't imagine.

Hoser stage. All targets close.

[MarkCO]

Now you have me. Please explain how you would work that magic as I can't imagine.

Here are just 3 stage ideas where evenly skilled competitors where Limited Minor beats Limited Major...no magic

1. 24 round course of fire, 6 targets, 4 hits per target all targets full and inside of 3 yards

2. 19 plates, one popper.

3. 11 zebra targets, all about 15 yards, 2 rounds per target.

In each case, it will be easy for the minor shooter to shoot all As, less so for the Major shooter, and the minor shooter saves a reload as well. These stages will typically result in about a 10% advantage to the minor shooter.

[ThePeanutGallery]

Thanks for all the different opinions guys, I appreciate it. Yes, the gun I'm running has had a trigger job and a pretty skinny fiber front installed, finally installed a magwell last night. I'm not really aware of much else that could be done except grip tape and an aftermarket barrel.

Shot a match today, don't have final results - but it definitely wasn't a 90% + points day. Lots of room for my skills to improve, but having shot a friends Brazos 2011 - that trigger difference could be a huge benefit on 25 yard classifier shots.

[Supermoto]

Now you have me. Please explain how you would work that magic as I can't imagine.

Here are just 3 stage ideas where evenly skilled competitors where Limited Minor beats Limited Major...no magic

1. 24 round course of fire, 6 targets, 4 hits per target all targets full and inside of 3 yards

2. 19 plates, one popper.

3. 11 zebra targets, all about 15 yards, 2 rounds per target.

In each case, it will be easy for the minor shooter to shoot all As, less so for the Major shooter, and the minor shooter saves a reload as well. These stages will typically result in about a 10% advantage to the minor shooter.

#1 is the only one where I see an advantage and only because of round count, not major minor scoring. No different then saying a 32 round mag will beat a 30 round mag on a 32 round stage

[MarkCO]

Don't guess, shoot them several times switching guns. The results won't lie.

All three examples will have the major shooter reload when the minor won't have to. On the zebras, any decent shooter will shot all As, the minor shooter will do it faster.

[Supermoto]

#2 and 3 won't require a reload. I don't shoot my 9mm 2011 any faster or more accurately then my 40

[MarkCO]

You go one for one on steel... On average... You lose, but please try.

[Supermoto]

You go one for one on steel... On average... You lose, but please try.

I guess we're moving up from Minor will always beat to on average will beat?

[lawboy]

Buy the gun you DESIRE to own and shoot. NOTHING else matters. Stop mentally masturbating about what gun is right, or enough right now, or fits your skills today. Silly, stupid, ridiculous! Buy what you want. Period. Then put in the time to learn to kick ass with it.

Edited September 22, 2014 by lawboy