Sept BOD Meeting

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Last year as the Chrono guy at the A7 Championship at the Sig Academy in NH, I had the opportunity to chronograph several different 357SIG factory loads. Various bullet weights and types. All of them made major power factor out of the box.

I shoot a 226 in 357SIG and like the round. Members of the Sig staff shot the 357SIG round and were scored minor. Over lunch, we discussed asking the BOD to make a change allowing 357SIG ammo which makes power factor to be scored major. Mentioned it to John Amidon who knew of no reason the change could not be made. He compared it to scoring 357MAG as major.

Now I see it on the Agenda for the September meeting. (Thanks David) I would like to ask members to contact their Director and ask for their support.

http://uspsa.org/uspsa-announcements-details.php?BOD-Meeting-Agenda---Sept-13-2014-183

The round is carried by many LE Agencies. Those using duty gear in Limited or Limited 10 are scored minor due to the bullet diameter. This could change that. When I finally finish getting my parts fixed, I hope to compete again with my 226 in L10 shooting 357SIG Major Power Factor

Thanks for your consideration

Gary

Edited August 19, 2014 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[bikerburgess]

I think IPSC got this one right and we should follow suit. Having both 357 sigs and 40sw I think I would give the competitive edge to the 40 (softer and bigger hole) bit it would be nice to have the choice.

[mpolans]

I'm assuming by the wording this is just a 357sig specific exception and not an overall reduction to .355 bullet diameter change. If so, no big deal.

Some of the other changes proposed seem to want the nature of Production.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I'm assuming by the wording this is just a 357sig specific exception and not an overall reduction to .355 bullet diameter change. If so, no big deal.

Some of the other changes proposed seem to want the nature of Production.

My purpose for asking was for the 357SIG round NOT 9mm major or other. I tested off the shelf factory ammo and all made major with no problem. It addresses a few people but why not? It was already done with 357MAG in revolver division.

[pkm]

For what it's worth I planning on sending an e-mail opposing this idea. Right now it is pretty cut and dry about minimum caliber for Limited and Lim-10 for Major. I think when we start to take the brass into consideration it is going to be a mess.

Edited August 22, 2014 by pkm

[ktm300]

I am OK with 357Sig, I just want to be sure we don't go to 38SC in Limited. Lots of people argue about it but Limited is just fine without a new arms race. Much less $$ to shoot with .40 brass etc.

[pkm]

When you start judging ammo based on its brass (ie. .357 sig) you are starting a new arms race.

[Steve RA]

Since it's already been done with the .357 Magnum, it really isn't plowing new ground.

[pkm]

Atleast with your .357 magnum you are using the same sized projectile. This would change the minimum size down to 9mm if you are using the .357sig brass.

[ctay]

357sig brass is the same size as 40 if I'm not mistaken. I don't see how that can start an arms race - no capacity benefit.

Makes total sense to allow more LE 357sig shooters to play our game.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

357sig brass is the same size as 40 if I'm not mistaken. I don't see how that can start an arms race - no capacity benefit.

Makes total sense to allow more LE 357sig shooters to play our game.

You are correct. A 12 round 40S&W Sig 226 mag holds 12 357SIG rounds. I do not know where there could possibly be a perceived "Arms Race".

What it does do is open up the sport for interested members of various Federal, State, and local LE Agencies who wish to compete in our sport with issued equipment. It also opens the sport to a team of factory shooters from Sig who are supporting the various matches with attendance and sponsorship as well as hosting matches in their NH Academy facility.

The BOD is not bringing up 9MM Bullets, they are discussing a cartridge designated by SAMMI as 357sig which was created in 1994.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[9146gt]

If you can blowup a 9mm gun in Open...why is it you can not do it in Limited? Never made sence to me.

Tom

[Steve RA]

Primarily because of the pressure difference between Major and Minor power factors.

[9146gt]

Primarily because of the pressure difference between Major and Minor power factors.

Open and limited are both Major....9 scored major in open...why?

Tom

[Vlad]

Forget a the explicit .357 sig, base it on case diameter.

What everyone worries about is a equipment race for more rounds in 140mm mags. Set the limit not on 40S&W or 357sig but case diamter no smaller then .420". This way even if your undersize die makes the 40 case smaller then the nominal 0.424" all its good.

Then if someone wants make major with a neck downed 40 they can knock themselves out. I wonder if you can make major with a .224 bullet in a 40 case.

[hornetx40]

Supposedly no more matches at SIG academy, since someone shot themselves while drawing.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Supposedly no more matches at SIG academy, since someone shot themselves while drawing.

Although there was a reported training accident, it has nothing to do with this topic and is unrelated to USPSA

[mpolans]

Limited has a minimum diameter of .40. Back in the day, USPSA was a little more true to all three principles of speed, power, and accuracy. The game was more "practical" oriented as the discipline was largely created and shaped by Jeff Cooper and his contemporaries, who tended to think that in a gunfight, bigger bullets going faster were better than smaller bullets going slower...it's the whole reason we have power factors and major/minor scoring at all. The minimum diameter for Limited pays homage to that era.

If you can blowup a 9mm gun in Open...why is it you can not do it in Limited? Never made sence to me.

Tom

Edited September 5, 2014 by mpolans

[blind bat]

Did the Sept 13 meeting happen?

I looked on the USPSA website but the meeting minutes haven't been posted:

http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-board-mtg-minutes.php

[ZackJones]

They probably won't get posted until after the Nationals.

[photoracer]

One correction, Cooper and his guys thought a bigger bullet going SLOWER was better than a smaller bullet going FASTER not the other way around. And at one time in IPSC at least, Ltd/Ltd 10 allowed 9x23 and 38Super.

Edited October 3, 2015 by photoracer

[elguapo]

Atleast with your .357 magnum you are using the same sized projectile. This would change the minimum size down to 9mm if you are using the .357sig brass.

I have no horse in this race but after reading all the comments and thinking this through; your opposition to this change makes ZERO logical sense.

357 SIG makes major power factor from the factory. Period. Full stop.

You can't fit more 357 SIG cartridges, compared to 40 S&W, in the same magazine. Period. Full Stop.

What, again, is your reason for opposing this change?

[elguapo]

Even though you got it backwards, Cooper's been proven WRONG in this regard time and time again.

Jeff Cooper and his contemporaries, who tended to think that in a gunfight, bigger bullets going faster were better than smaller bullets going slower...

[Bkreutz]

My thoughts on this subject

[Shadyscott999]

All 4 people who shoot or will shoot 357 SIG are really concerned about this.