acpie360 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 At level 1 club matches, since most ROs are just volunteers, unless a shooter obviously runs bypassing a target, when do you decide to give a shooter the FTE penalty? Especially when the RO that runs the timer isn't sure, do you just call for 2-mikes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I give the shooter an FTE when he has an FTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 When I know 100% he/she didn't engage a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 When I know 100% he/she didn't engage a target. THIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 When I know 100% he/she didn't engage a target. THIS +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Is this some kind of joke or trick question? What do you mean RO's are volunteers at level I matches? All RO's are volunteers at any match. We run all our level I matches by the rules around here where I shoot. So if a shooter fails to shoot at a target he gets penalized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullsi45 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 i give two mike and fte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 When I am sure they did not engage it. Some targets are grouped such that you cannot say with 100% certainty that they failed to shoot at a specific target because it is available from so many places. Some are only available from a specific location so it is easy to see if they index on the target or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron169 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Is this some kind of joke or trick question? What do you mean RO's are volunteers at level I matches? All RO's are volunteers at any match. We run all our level I matches by the rules around here where I shoot. So if a shooter fails to shoot at a target he gets penalized I think he is saying that at level one matches, you get someone running the timer that isn't a certified range officer, thus no formal education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaster113 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 When I'm running the timer I try to follow the rules as closely as possible. If there's an FTE or other penalty and I'm 100% sure, I give the penalty. I even break out the overlays quite often, both to be fair to the shooter and for my own practice if/when I ever decide to RO a major. Think we're doing the shooter a disservice if we're too lenient. The new shooters have to learn the rules of the game and being too lax doesnt help them. Half our club is newer shooters, with a few being DQ'd more than once. After having shot multiple majors I try to bring the same standard of R/Oing to my home club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Agreed. We're not doing the newbies a "favor" by helping them learn the wrong rules, not just for scoring but for safety. We'll end up with them being more unhappy later when we suddenly decide that they're here to stay and start enforcing the real rules. Or they go to another club or a Major and get hit with a whole bunch of surprises. We should teach them, coach them, mentor them - and have them read the rule book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuelie777 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuelie777 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I agree with Sarge's perspective. Also, He either engaged or he did not. If he did not, the FTE applies. We run all our matches per the USPSA rulebook. Should be no different at any USPSA match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeislarge Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Not only that but with this sport being one of personal integrity much like golf, I as a shooter know if I failed to engage a target. You also know that if a COF requires 28 shots and the shooter only fired 26 times, there's obviously an FTE somewhere. The timer will show shots fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I agree with Sarge's perspective. Also, He either engaged or he did not. If he did not, the FTE applies. We run all our matches per the USPSA rulebook. Should be no different at any USPSA match. EXACTLY ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Not only that but with this sport being one of personal integrity much like golf, I as a shooter know if I failed to engage a target. You also know that if a COF requires 28 shots and the shooter only fired 26 times, there's obviously an FTE somewhere. The timer will show shots fired. Not necessarily -- though that's likely...... There could have been a disappearing target..... Someone could have engaged two targets with a single round..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 As a competitor, I want exactly the points I earned on the stage -- any less cheats me of a score I earned; any more cheats my competitors...... As an RO I strive to call the targets in the manner in which I would want to have them called..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/GA Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 No distinction between level matches. At all matches shooter gets the FTE if they fail to engage a target AND the RO or the scorekeeper (2nd RO) know FOR SURE they did not engage the target. If we are not sure, then just the mikes. And no, it is never based on the shots on the timer. How do you know that it was not 1 and 1 or maybe the timer did not pick up a shot and the RO's count is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammer1911 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Everytime the competitor earns it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Not only that but with this sport being one of personal integrity much like golf, I as a shooter know if I failed to engage a target. You also know that if a COF requires 28 shots and the shooter only fired 26 times, there's obviously an FTE somewhere. The timer will show shots fired. Not necessarily -- though that's likely...... There could have been a disappearing target..... Someone could have engaged two targets with a single round..... Well, actually not. All targets (and range props except target sticks) are "impenetrable". If you hit one target the bullet effectively "disappears", and any holes in other targets (or hits on steel) don't count. (If it's steel it's a Range Equipment Failure...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I think Nik meant one per target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) I know all or most folks that are RO's spent a lot of time and money to become an RO so why would you not enforce the rules.i Nick,,I agree with you.Give me my true score nothing more nothing less Edited August 18, 2014 by EEH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I think Nik meant one per target. I KNOW that's what he meant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Yeah Teros, Nik did not mean that and he is very well-versed with the rules...and it's not a good idea to use the timer for those sorts of things (creates a bad habit), watch the gun/shooter and you will know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I think Nik meant one per target. I KNOW that's what he meant! Gotcha. This English language has so many twists and turns (...like Desi said to Lucy when he was studying English, "how come you say "e-nuff" [enough] but you don't say "buff" [bough]?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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