rwagner24 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Im currently shooting limited in steel challenge. Im considering building a open gun so I can shoot two classes. I have watched countless people shooting a red dot draw really quick and then struggle to find the dot for their first shot. I never have a hard time finding my fiber front pin. This makes me wonder if I would actually be able to shoot a open gun faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Yes you will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwagner24 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 I never shot a dot before. When I shoot iron if the plates are close together I "follow the bouncing pin" and if they are far apart I move my eves to the plate and catch up with the pin. Is it the same with a dot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 If those shooters practiced at all they would not struggle to find the dot as it's just there. The 90 degree mount makes it lower and easier to find at first but you do loose a little visibility on the left side which can be an issue with steel that's close together if it's not an actual steel challenge match. The key to the dot is practice draws till the dot is naturally there and your not looking for it. I shoot a vertical dot for both my Rimfire gun and my uspsa open gun as well as iron sighted guns and have no issue switching back and forth and indexing the gun It just takes practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwagner24 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 Very good that's what I wanted to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cecil Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I a 9mm Steel Master... (red dot) .. I agree with the above statement.. a 90 degree mount will limit your left side vision.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwagner24 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 Planning on a xdm with carver mount on top. Cmore slide ride on mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drglock Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 What Burned Out said, when shooting with a dot they key is proper draw to target and building good muscle memory practice practice practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 All my Open guns have sideways cmores so I don't know any different, but I've never struggled with the dot; I draw and shoot, it's always where I expect it to be. In a matter of days you'll shoot an Open gun faster than an iron sighted gun; just point and click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 You will certainly miss much faster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwagner24 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 I went through a phase where I think I could of been a world champ at missing. This is my best year so far and all I'm doing is not allowing myself to break the shot unless the pin is where I want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 You will shoot much faster right out of the chute. Only problem is you will also generally shoot much slower than the rest of the Open shooters who have been doing it awhile. Everything happens much faster in open including misses like Foxbat said. Want a real eye opener? Plug some numbers in to classifier calculators in production and then do the same in Open. This will give you some idea of how much faster you NEED to go to score well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwagner24 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 I'm trying to wrap my head around why open guns are so much faster. I understand a comp gets the gun on target quicker but you can't move a open gun to the next plate faster than a production one. It must come down to the bullet will hit where the dot is and not where the front pin is if it's not lined up with the rear sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Hello: I suggest you try an open pistol and see how it works for you. Shooting a dot gun changes your focus to the target not the dot. You bring the dot to the target. Shooting with both eyes open like a shotgun helps also. One of the good things about shooting a dot for a while is that you can shoot an iron sighted gun faster. Kinda weird and hard to explain but it does. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwagner24 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 That sounds good. Thank you guys for all the info!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Shooting a dot gun is faster for 2 reasons: first, the open division allows you to use a race holster which is much faster than drawing from a regular holster and 2) dot on target = pull the trigger, no lining up 2 different things in 2 different planes .... The comp also helps with recoil as well ... However, as was mentioned, everyone shoots faster in open relative to say Production so if you're slow with irons, you're going to be slow relatively speaking in open as well .... When Mike Seeklander shot our local match in conjunction with his class, he came in 3rd overall behind only 2 open shooters, both who are Masters. He beat every other open shooter with his limited gun becuase he his faster at the fundamentals, choice of gun didn't matter ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 This makes me wonder if I would actually be able to shoot a open gun faster. There may be a short learning curve where you can shoot your Limited gun faster than your Open gun, but not long. There's a reason dots and comps are not allowed in Limited: because they offer a competitive advantage. If I can draw and shoot six pieces of steel in 4.6 seconds with my Limited gun, I can shoot the same array in 4.0 seconds with my Open gun. So yes, unless you're uniquely handicapped with the dot, you'll shoot faster with an Open gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 You will shoot marginally faster at first with an open gun. And if your open fundamentals don't evolve with days and years of practice that's all you will ever do. Shooting open against other open shooters is the hardest thing I have ever done. You have to see and react so much faster than the other divisions your target focus is a exactly opposite So while you may at first beat some limited shooters with your open gun know that's people who have been training for years in that division are likely to beat the brakes off you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 everyone shoots faster in open relative to say Production so if you're slow with irons, you're going to be slow relatively speaking in open as well .... Hence I put a 91% on roscoe roundup in production and 88% in open with a faster time and better hits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHMSA15151 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 When I first started shooting Steel Challenge (rim fire guns) I would shoot an iron sight gun and an open gun. It's something you have to try and see if you can adapt easily to because of the sighting differences. With irons your focus should be on your front sight. With a dot on an open gun your focus should be on the targets. Mentally switching between the two was a bit difficult at first, especially when I'd shoot the two guns back to back. It's one of the reasons I'm building a center fire open gun. I can shoot them back to back without changing my focus. A lot less confusing for my old tired brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwagner24 Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 I can't wait to try this!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornetx40 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Ryan if you are the guy from PA....PM me you can shoot mine if you want to try before you buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Ryan if you are the guy from PA....PM me you can shoot mine if you want to try before you buy I love this forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Shooting a dot gun is faster for 2 reasons: first, the open division allows you to use a race holster which is much faster than drawing from a regular holster and 2) dot on target = pull the trigger, no lining up 2 different things in 2 different planesThis really isn't quite true, while it may help sell a lot of race holsters the time difference is not as significant as you'd think...plus race holsters are allowed in all divisions in IPSC and the Limited divisions of USPSA. I've put all my guns and holsters on the clock and I can draw my Glock out of a 6004 duty holster within a tenth of a second of what I can draw my race gun. On point 2 its the target focus used for every shot that makes the dot guns faster and the difference increases with distance/difficulty of shot. At 5m the time between any of the divisions is going to be minimal. At 25m its going to be significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwagner24 Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Pm sent, I think new to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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