Square Deal B 9mm?

[aandabooks]

I currently load on a Lee 4 hole turret press and do ok to get in the 150 per hour range. I prime off the press. My son has recently started competing and has been practicing for a while. Our consumption of 9mm is elevating significantly. My reloading guru is recommending a Square Deal dedicated to 9mm. He is a Dillon dealer. The other 5 pistol calibers and 3 rifle calibers would stay on the Lee Turret.

Here are a couple questions:

1. Does it seem like a Square Deal is the way to go given my needs?

2. Is a case feeder/bullet feeder a potential future option on the Square Deal?

3. Is $379 the going price or are better price available?

4. Could a solid case be made for spending the extra $$$ to get a 650?

5. How much width does a Square Deal need on a bench?

6. Would I be better off looking at a Hornady AP press?

I have a limited amount of space if I want the Lee to stay permantly mounted to the bench. The Dillon would have to be taken on and off the bench when needed.

[dirty whiteboy]

In short, it looks like a Dillon 650 would fit the bill. With Dillons no bs warranty, I don't know why anyone would look at any other press. JMHO

[jayhkr]

I use my SDB for 9mm 100% of the time and it works great. I can do about 100 rounds ever 15 - 17 minutes depending on how fast I fill my primer tubes, so I'm easily in the 300+ per hour range. I bought my SDB from Brian here off his forums and couldn't had been happier. He keep in contact with you through the whole process, and is genuinely the type of dealer that cares about his customers more than the money going in his pocket. As far as making a statement about the 650, if you're ONLY going to be loading 9mm, I see no reason to spend the extra cash on a 650. Now if you want to load other calibers, then that might be something to look into. As far as width goes for your bench, and without going downstairs to give you precise measurements, I would estimate 8-12" at max with the bullet catch tray. If you want to add the other accessories that'll add to the overall width. I love my SDB and couldn't be happier. Unfortunately there is no after market bullet feeder made for it. I've seen a few people who have jimmy rigged something, but nothing other than that. Good luck on your purchase but seriously stick with Dillon. It'll outlast you, your son, his kids, and probably their kids' kids kids!

[dwr461]

I have a Lee 4 station turret press and a SDB. I've used the SDB for my competition needs for seven years. It just works. So I see no need buy anything else. When I start having to reload rifle calibers in larger quantities I'll keep my SDB and add a 650 if that tells you anything.

Dave

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Edited May 30, 2014 by dwr461

[IronicTwitch]

My SDB loads 9mm like a breeze. I think a new one for $379 is your best bet given my experience buying a used one (which are near impossible to find since no one wants to give theirs up!). Price-wise, the SDB would be perfect if you stick to 9mm since the $379 includes the dies too.

Total width on the bench for my preferences is at least two feet - box of bullets on one side and a box of brass on the other side. If you like to stand while reloading, I like the strong mount which adds a little to the footprint but makes a better platform especially for the forward stroke to seat the primer. Wait to get the brass and bullet trays until after you've used it without.

One thing I couldn't get used to on the Hornady LnL was the half-rotation. Seat the bullet on the belled case and I keep a finger hold while the shell plate rotates half a notch until it goes into the seating die. It just felt weird to me...but my buddy loves his LnL.

[Added a snapshot to provide some visual reference for size - this setup includes all the options: mount, bullet tray, empty brass tray]

Edited May 30, 2014 by IronicTwitch

[Oldgoat03]

I have a Lee 4 hole turret, SDB and a 550. I use and enjoy them all but the one I continually go back to for loading pistol is the SDB. It is smooth plenty fast for my pistol loading needs (in many calibers) and the price is hard to beat. I load rifle and other low volume stuff on my Turret or 550.

In terms of bench space I share that issue. My solution was to put threaded inserts into the bench for my machines. Then its just a matter of unbolting one and bolting down the other. (quick and easy)

You really can't go wrong with Dillon.

I hope this helps.

OG03

[Sarge]

The only reasons not to get an SDB would be;

You can't use custom dies like udies or LEE FCD

You can't run a bullet or case feeder

Those alone would steer me towards the 650

[Jaycwebb]

I just got done making this decision myself, and I went wth the 650. Couldn't be happier. This was my first reloader and with a few hours of work and some help from a friend who has a 550 I was loading by the end of my first day. I'm rolling at a rate of 200+ an hour, and I'm a total newbie.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I went wth the 650. I'm rolling at 200+ an hour .

I'm NOT a newbie, but I am OLD (Super Senior) and I can "roll"

at over 200/hour with my SDB:)).

If you have the money, I'd go with the 650 and load up all the calibers

on the one machine:)) (Probably cost you close to $2000 for everything ....

How's $369 look now???

[Jaycwebb]

I went wth the 650. I'm rolling at 200+ an hour .

I'm NOT a newbie, but I am OLD (Super Senior) and I can "roll"

at over 200/hour with my SDB:)).

If you have the money, I'd go with the 650 and load up all the calibers

on the one machine:)) (Probably cost you close to $2000 for everything ....

How's $369 look now???

I wan't implying my 200/ an hour was good. I was just saying despite me being slow/new I'm still getting a decent rate.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Sorry, Jay, I wasn't picking on you - just saying that a SDB can load pretty fast, too.

AND, it's a LOT less money than a 650.

[Jaycwebb]

Totally, agree, much cheaper. I priced out a SDB set up at about $1000 all in (never reloaded, needed everything.) My 650 was $1650. I went this route for a few reasons.
1- I wanted a faster overall rate of production. ( I think this is a tie overall compared to the SDB. even though the B is a little slower, it's much cheaper.)

2- I wanted to start loading .223 by the end of the year as well.

[RammerJammer]

I load 223 on the lee turret like a madman and do 40 on the SDB. good system and I am happy with both.

[Jaxshooter]

I would at least consider the 650. With 2 people shooting it will make life much easier. It is less expensive to buy it up front than buy the Square Deal only to decide you want to load everything on a progressive machine.

[AJE]

The only reasons not to get an SDB would be;

You can't use custom dies like udies or LEE FCD

You can't run a bullet or case feeder

Those alone would steer me towards the 650

As a Square Deal B owner, I agree with this.

[1911Prof]

I own a Dillon SDB which has worked flawlessly for years. There was a short pause once when worn out parts were replaced by Dillons no bs warrenty. I would like to point out the fairly large number of threads describing various problems with the 1050 and 650 (especially the primer sustems), but there really are relatively few discussing problems with the SDB. It is the most dependable reloader I own.

[427Cobra]

I go with a 650, yes it's more money but in the long run it will serve yall better, my first 100 rounds took me 30 minutes, the next 400 took 30 minutes, IMHO the powder check station is a gotta have.

[Undrpsi]

Used Lee's off and on since the mid-80's. Up until 4 years ago I had dual Pro-1000's (one set up for small primers, the other for large). This was my most productive set up till that point....then made the mistake of switching to Loadmasters. I had a serious love/hate relationship with those until I picked up a used SDB. The SDB loaded .38 and 9mm very well but it was old....long story short I wound up getting a Dillon RL550b. It reminds you a LOT of a Lee Turret....except it works 24/7 & 365. I can't say enough about my (now two) RL550's. The RL550's are NOT fully progressive but that's exactly why I wanted them. Since I might have to set up and run just a few test rounds or some for a buddy. The 550 is the EASIEST to break down and set up. The primer systems, if you keep up the maintenance, is flawless. I actually pulled the Hockey Puck primer magazine of one of my Loadmasters and used it as a clay....blew it all over the backyard....I HATED that stupid system on the LEE. Pro-1000 was ok though...but the 550's is just a sewing machine (it just keeps running).

SDB's are great...they work good but it's a complete re-investment and you can't use any of the proprietary dies on any other machine....and it ONLY does pistol calibers.
650's are great.....they can make an ASTOUNDING pile of ammo quickly. I just don't like the setup time and didn't need the case feeder. Overall it was about 20% more for the 650 over the 550 at the time.
550's are my choice. Machine is a little cheaper than 650 and so are the conversion kits. I just kept all my Lee dies (though I've slowly replaced them with the Dillon ones). I like I can sit down and load 4000 or 40 without too much of a hassle.

Your questions....
1. Does it seem like a Square Deal is the way to go given my needs?
If you only plan on pistol loading (and they make a die for it)...they YES, the SDB can load gobs off ammo, has a good warranty and a small footprint.

2. Is a case feeder/bullet feeder a potential future option on the Square Deal?
Nope...and before you get 'gotta-have-itis'...those two options are great if you sit down and load lots of only 2 or 3 calibers....after that the setups, adjustments, and added costs (buying the coallater sprocket wheel thingy) can add up. If you load THAT much of just 1 or 2 calibers...go look at the Dillon 1050.

3. Is $379 the going price or are better price available?
Seen them NIB "new open box" on Ebay for a little less...but pretty much everyone uses Dillon's MSRP

4. Could a solid case be made for spending the extra $$$ to get a 650?
My personal choice is the 550...especially if you're a Lee guy. 10 minutes and you'll realize it's like a Lee Turret but much much better....and you can use your dies (all you buy is the conversion kits). I load a bunch of calibers in both rifle and pistol though....either one is a good choice.

5. How much width does a Square Deal need on a bench?
Not much. I bought a $20 work table from Harbor Freight and it worked fine. Mounted to a bench (without strong arm mount) it basically the size of a loaf of bread standing on it's end...maybe slightly taller. About 2-3" shorter than the Pro-1000 with the Powder tube on it (but not the case or bullet tubes).

6. Would I be better off looking at a Hornady AP press?
NO...the Ammunition Plant is...nice...it's different. I played with my buddy's (he had the model before it but he added the updates). It had features I liked and stuff I really didn't. If Hornady is still using the APC primer feed strips...stop there. Great idea, implemented well, but in the wild? I didn't like it very much. The AP and the Rock Crusher Upgraded progressives both feel...well, they feel like 1970's models that have been upgraded. While the Dillon SHOULD feel that way too, it never did for me. The first time I sat down on my 550 and did a serious run of 2k rounds of .45 ACP I just fell in love. Once it's set up all you do is replenish the consumables and pull the handle.....and bullets fall out. Yes, the 650 would have done that just as well but, again, I like that I can break the machine down and be back up in just a few minutes.

Just my uninformed .02 worth....

twins by jayraxter1, on Flickr

[RDA]

Just my uninformed .02 worth....

Umm, no, that looked incredibly informed, unbiased and very educational to me comparing not only some of the Dillon offerings but other companies' offerings as well.

[BeerBaron]

funny about the post above.

since you liked your lee turret and seem to perhaps be on a budget I was going to suggest the lee loadmaster.

things in it's favour:

cheap

5 station full progressive

comes with a (rudimentary but effective) case feeder

can add a cheap bullet feeder (which is a bit crap, but does work)

primers are very easy to fill (many have had problems with the primer system, but it has been updated and mine works very well, maybe 1 ballsed up primer in 500 rounds or so, maybe less than that)

it needs a bit of tuning and setting up, but once done they can run like a top. I can do 200 rounds (a normal practice sized batch for me) in about 20min including filling up all the consumables (powder, primers, cases).

I see a lot of bad pres on the loadmaster but I'm not sure why. In design it's a bit basic. some parts are cheaply made. BUT if set-up properly they run very nicely. Mine was even second hand when I got it and even with the old primer feed it worked fine till I got a misfed primer. with the new primer system it's even better.

Having said all that if you can afford the 650 it's probably the best option in the long term. If you can't the loadmaster is nothing to be scared of in my opinion.

[Undrpsi]

Beerbaron, I don't know...maybe I had a couple of bad loadmasters. Mine were frustratingly quirky. From smashing the nose on the case pusher arm to primers being sheared....the Pro-1000's I had (and still have) were solid as a rock but tend to require more cleaning than most. My theory on that (and this applies to the DIllon SDB) is the shellplate is of such a small diameter that when it's rotated it tends to sling powder more than a press with a larger shellplate. That's also another reason I like the 550...I control how fast the shellplate rotates. That way my case filling loads aren't throwing Unique all over the bench.

Here's a link to my YouTube video about my Loadmaster fail....this was posted almost 3 years ago but I hear the current Loadmasters have a redesigned primer show...

http://youtu.be/2r2VFXHfxcs

[media][/media]

Cheers...

[Undrpsi]

aandabooks

Duh...I forgot I did a hands on with the SDB (including size and the table I talked about)....I only remembered when I went to pull my Lee Loadmaster video for Beerbaron...

Watch this...you can see a lot about it...

http://youtu.be/1foHG6AVgBs

Cheers....

[dwr461]

The only thing I can add as a long term user of the SDB is what I've found that has helped me with respect to the reliability of the primer system. I originally had my SDB mounted without a strong mount to a work bench. There was a lot of movement of the whole press when I used it. In that configuration I would have about two to three primers in one hundred that would end up loaded upside down or even side ways. So I added the strong mount and that helped. Then I rebuilt the work bench with much heavier plywood and that helped. Now I always try to work the ram very smoothly and deliberately. That coupled with the other changes I now have very few primer misfeeds. If I'm having a particularly bad day I'll have a failure rate of maybe one or two in five hundred. My caveat is that this has been with the small primer system only.

Dave

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jmorris]

I have had two SD's for almost 30 years now, even built a case feed system for one of them.

Video of case feed.

They were a great deal for the $130 price back then.

I would suggest a 650 though.

[rdinga]

I load multiple calibers on a 550 and use a Square deal as my dedicated 9mm press. It works perfect!