Abandoning Shotgun

[ctay]

Have a question that I'm having a tough time finding the right answer. When abandoning a shotgun (Versamax in this case) must it be empty or just on safe? I'm talking USPSA Multi-Gun rules. My local club requires the gun be empty if you are going down range of it but I don't know if that is the rule for USPSA.

I'm shooting Multi-Gun nats for the first time and want to be sure what the rule is. It is not fun emptying the tube in a versa - have to push the little lever to put a shell in the carrier, rack and repeat. Can take a while if you just loaded it up to capacity.

[Dan Sierpina]

Go to the multigun rules, section 3.1, then down to 3.3.6 Safety must be on, or completly empty.

It could be that your local club abandons on a table, rather than a barrel so the firearm is in a vertical orientation.

[alma]

I think most empty the shotgun by shooting the remaining rounds in a safe direction. Not hard since most only load up with just enough rounds to get through the stage. Rifles are more likely to be put on safe than shotguns.

[Doug H.]

I think most empty the shotgun by shooting the remaining rounds in a safe direction. Not hard since most only load up with just enough rounds to get through the stage. Rifles are more likely to be put on safe than shotguns.

Be careful what you suggest, at the USPSA MG Nationals if you fire a gun at something other than a target you could be DQed. Speed unloading is a no-no. On safe in an abandonment location is fine. See you all at Nats.

Doug

[alma]

Thanks Doug. Brings up the need for a common 3 Gun rule set again.

[StealthyBlagga]

Thanks Doug. Brings up the need for a common 3 Gun rule set again.

Brings up the need for well thought out abandonment receptacles - IMHO using tables, 3GN trays and other similar abandonment devices that don't point the gun straight down into the ground and secure it against falling is unwise and unnecessary. It should NEVER be unsafe to advance downrange of an abandoned gun if even a modicum of thought is put into the stage construction.

I echo the sentiment that speed unloading is a really bad idea, whether by shooting the rounds out or racking the gun on the clock. Both are needlessly unsafe, far outweighing the "safety" of bringing the gun to an unloaded state.

Edited March 13, 2014 by StealthyBlagga

[ericm]

Thanks Doug. Brings up the need for a common 3 Gun rule set again.

Brings up the need for well thought out abandonment receptacles - IMHO using tables, 3GN trays and other similar abandonment devices that don't point the gun straight down into the ground and secure it against falling is unwise and unnecessary. It should NEVER be unsafe to advance downrange of an abandoned gun if even a modicum of thought is put into the stage construction.

I echo the sentiment that speed unloading is a really bad idea, whether by shooting the rounds out or racking the gun on the clock. Both are needlessly unsafe, far outweighing the "safety" of bringing the gun to an unloaded state.

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Edited March 13, 2014 by ericm

[kurtm]

Really? How is shooting a load of shot into the berm "unsafe"? I was told once at a match it would be a d.q. because some of the shot might go over the berm, yet the same stage had 4 aerial targets. I think we can safely say all those pellets did, but I guess shot shot at a clay 15' in the air is safe, but shot shot at a berm is dangerous!!!

[Doug H.]

Kurt, don't mistake a breach of the rules with something that makes sense. I just read the new Provisional USPSA Rifle, Shotgun and MG Rules and there are some interesting things, including a 30 second penalty for abandoning a loaded gun off safe in a retention device. A case for a DQ for speed unloading could be made under 5.2.4, A shot which occurs while loading, preloading,
reloading or unloading a firearm. This includes any shot fired during the procedures outlined in Rule [3.3.1] and Rule [3.3.9], and under 5.2.7 A shot which occurs during movement, except
while actually shooting at targets. As for shooting over a berm with a shotgun, they put in something for that too:5.2.2 A shot, which travels over a backstop, a berm or in any other direction, specified in the written stage briefing by the match organizers as being unsafe. Note that a competitor who legitimately fires a shot at a target, which then travels in an unsafe direction, will not be disqualified (the provisions of Section [2.3] may apply). 5.2.2.1 Exception- engaging flying targets with birdshot. [5.3.2] still applies.

Doug

Edited March 17, 2014 by Doug H.

[kurtm]

I'm with you amigo, and your rules read for USPSA is of course right on. I always try to do what the rules say, even though some of them can make your head swim.

[CJW]

I'm shooting Multi-Gun nats for the first time and want to be sure what the rule is. It is not fun emptying the tube in a versa - have to push the little lever to put a shell in the carrier, rack and repeat. Can take a while if you just loaded it up to capacity.

On a slightly different note, if you are unloading a whole tube full of shells on the clock, then the time you spend doing that is only part of your problem—you spent way too much time loading shells you didn't need! Shooting off an extra shell or two happens occasionally, but you rarely see people finishing a stage with more than a round or two left over in the gun.

[EkuJustice]

I try and end with 1 shell left in the gun as I feel I can push it and go a little faster if I know I have one makeup shot in the gun. If it's an odd number of targets and my option loading 2 is go dry or add 2 extra I will usually load the extra if it's a long stage and I can do so without costing time. If the rules say you can't speed unload without aiming at a target and it must be empty I am double tapping the last target I have never been a fan of the no burning the last round rule If the fun must be empty. If it's done safely it should be good. If they set one off where they shouldn't it's a dq

[69CanaryCamaro]

I think it might be a good habit to get into to just leave the gun on safe whether it has rounds or not. If you do it every time then there won't be any question as to doing it or not. Just something I do and it works for me.

[Doug H.]

I think it might be a good habit to get into to just leave the gun on safe whether it has rounds or not. If you do it every time then there won't be any question as to doing it or not. Just something I do and it works for me.

This is probably the best idea, I have seen several times where a shooter thought they had cleared the gun but a round hung up somewhere and it ends up being a penalty or a DQ.

Doug

[Corey]

I like to try to "burn" the last round out of the gun that way I know its empty and i don't have to worry about the safety at all. All depends on stage layout, number of shells i need to load, number of missed targets and additional reloads that I dont account for, lol. That being said, more times than not, I still end up rolling the gun over and hitting the safety with my thumb before i pitch it in a barrel. Its just habit i guess.

[uncledoc]

I think it might be a good habit to get into to just leave the gun on safe whether it has rounds or not. If you do it every time then there won't be any question as to doing it or not. Just something I do and it works for me.

My thinking exactly.....this way I don't have to guess....just obey my muscle memory.

[robg2008]

The answer as others have said is either empty bolt locked back or safety on. I always put the safety on no matter what.

[Charbonneau482]

A little while back I was transitioning from shotgun to rifle and planned on dumping the shotgun on bolt lock. My muscle memory had me flick the safety on even though I thought I was on bolt lock. Ends up there was still one round left in the gun. That would have made by day short if I didn't retain my muscle memory of hitting the safety. From now on, I'll hit the safety regardless. Just my two cents on the topic though.

[openclassterror]

We ran a 3gun Nation style head-to-head shootoff in a club match last October. Out of 16 shooters to start, 5 DQ'd by the end of the elimination for abandoning loaded off-safe. I ALWAYS safe before abandoning, whether I think there are rounds in it or not. If you lose more than 1/2 second engaging your safety, you need more practice with it. I can abandon pistol or rifle with ZERO time loss by engaging safety as I extend it into the barrel/ bucket. Shotgun I try to fire last shot on the move at least 3 feet from my release point so I have time to safe it before I need to let go. I don't ever remember a match where the cumulative time of all on-safes would have moved me up even one position on the score sheet.

[JBOT5000]

At the 3 gun nation vegas a few weeks ago a shooter in my squad dq'd on the last stage by not safeing(sp) his shotgun. He shoved his mossberg so hard into the barrel he hit the safety. One is none two is one, burn the rounds and safe it if you can. Make up time by hitting your target not at the burn barrel. There is nothing worse than traveling all that way and leaving with your head down low. At the texas multigun last year so many people dq'd by not safeing there weapons by the end of it we were all stripping mags and clearing chambers just to be safe.