Canuck223 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Grand Power are going to be offering the boron nitride, titanium nitride and aluminum titanium nitride PVD finishes as options for the sporting line of pistols.I was able to handle the Boron Nitride finished guns at IWA this month and they really look sharp.I'm tempted to get the TiN finish on my next X-Calibur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praff Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 As long as I can get one of the nitride finishes reasonably inexpensive (somewhere close to the cost of hard chrome) i am going to have my open build blinged out!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippSpeed Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Problem with NiB is it stains when heated. I have a beatifull NiB BCG thats stained from usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxximuss Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I am trying to figure out prices right now. I need to know who wants in on this first batch. Edited March 23, 2014 by Maxximuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Me for sure. 6" slide, STI tactical frame and a reverse plug in TiCN Edited March 24, 2014 by waktasz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxximuss Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 I will be speaking with Calico Coatings tomorrow. We are trying to figure out exactly how much we can fit into the chamber. Will you take a picture of your gun next to a ruler/tape measure and email it to me? You are doing your frame and slide right? What about barrel or small control? It looks like it will be your 2011, my STI, my friend Breck's STI, and my friend Jay's Cameron's Custom 2011. Feel free to pm me if you have any other questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Just frame, slide and recoil spring plug. If for some reason the plug cant fit in the batch we can skip that. The other controls are black and I'll leave them that way. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman2733 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Depending on the price of what you guys can work out I could be in for doing my open gun or limited gun. Mainly like any other 2011 just the slide, frame, and magwell. If someone could PM what the final price would be. Also looks like Waktasz was right the application temp is super high "Calico TiCN application temperature is 450°C" you guys might wanna check I remember reading a thread about someone doing a slide in some form of a weird PVD coating and due to the temp it changed the hardness of the slide and caused it to crack. I could be 100% wrong but I remember reading something about it. Edited March 24, 2014 by Iceman2733 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praff Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 maxximuss....Please keep us updated on the progress and will definitely want pics when you guys get your parts back. I am definitely in for a round two on this once I get my new open gun finished and it has been shot a little. Also, if you have room, I might be interested in doing small parts from my les baer for this first batch: Trigger, hammer, ambi safety, recoil plug, slide stop, bushing and barrel and grip safety. Lemme know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxximuss Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Depending on the price of what you guys can work out I could be in for doing my open gun or limited gun. Mainly like any other 2011 just the slide, frame, and magwell. If someone could PM what the final price would be. Also looks like Waktasz was right the application temp is super high "Calico TiCN application temperature is 450°C" you guys might wanna check I remember reading a thread about someone doing a slide in some form of a weird PVD coating and due to the temp it changed the hardness of the slide and caused it to crack. I could be 100% wrong but I remember reading something about it. Iceman, Let me know if you remember where you saw that thread or which PVD coating it was. I called a couple people that deal with TiN and TiCN coating on guns. Neither of them knew of any problems with the heat upon application or the integrity of the firearm afterwards. This is a very standard color for the Desert Eagle and barrels of many different guns. I learned that DLC is applied at about 200 C so that doesn't answer any questions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxximuss Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 More relevant information on this: The temperature in the chamber is not the 450 C. The metal/chemicals have to be super heated before being applied to the part. Opinion: If this heat made the metal weak/brittle/untrustworthy would they use it in race car engines, jet engines, etc? I understand they use different metals than a standard 1911/2011, but it's not like our guns are made of cast iron. After talking to a couple more people in the industry I am not even close to concerned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 From what I can gather that's not true. The substrate (ie gun part) is heated to the "process temperature". That's listed as 840 degrees F on Calico's website. The titanium material is heated way higher than that. It's hit with an arc of electricity and turned into plasma. The charge on the gun part combined with its temperature allows the coating to form a hard film on the part. Now is that bad for an STI slide or frame? I have no idea. They do say they have alternative processes for a PVD coating parts that can't withstand that temperature though. Maybe not on Calico's site but on other PVD websites I've seen while doing my due diligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman2733 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Depending on the price of what you guys can work out I could be in for doing my open gun or limited gun. Mainly like any other 2011 just the slide, frame, and magwell. If someone could PM what the final price would be. Also looks like Waktasz was right the application temp is super high "Calico TiCN application temperature is 450°C" you guys might wanna check I remember reading a thread about someone doing a slide in some form of a weird PVD coating and due to the temp it changed the hardness of the slide and caused it to crack. I could be 100% wrong but I remember reading something about it. Iceman, Let me know if you remember where you saw that thread or which PVD coating it was. I called a couple people that deal with TiN and TiCN coating on guns. Neither of them knew of any problems with the heat upon application or the integrity of the firearm afterwards. This is a very standard color for the Desert Eagle and barrels of many different guns. I learned that DLC is applied at about 200 C so that doesn't answer any questions here. I wish I could find the thread for you like I mentioned above. I remeber it was posted about a gun that had a greenish purple color to it, I agree with you on that I wouldn't see too many people offereing it if it would give issues and I am still def interested if someone would PM me what the price break down would be for people itnerested. If it is priced right I would maybe due my limited and my open gun. I was just really interested in what temps would change the hardness of the metal and if this process would do it. And i just got the 450c off of Calico website where it said application temp, i could have read it wrong. I am not trying to start a war just wanting to make sure this is safe and won't have any long term issues. Def keep me posted and let me know if you guys get something worked out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 We should ask STI if they know of a temperature limitation on their slides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmego Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 We should ask STI if they know of a temperature limitation on their slides. I have been thinking this same thing and I meant to call them today but forgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOvalBandit Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Should be fine at 450C annealing usually is done closer to 700C but can be done at lower temps down to around 550C. Takes quite a bit of time though for it to occur. Salt bath nitriding aka tennifer and melonite finish occurs at temps higher than 450C and it does not wreck heat treat, why? It only takes about 20 minutes subjected to molten salt to complete. The other part of annealing is letting heat "soak" long enough to let the grains undergo physical changes. Sent from behind enemy lines using TapaTalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxximuss Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) As soon as we get confirmation from STI that the frame and slides can handle the heat we will be moving forward with the TiCN coating. This is going to be a group buy to ensure that it stays affordable for everyone that wants to get a gun or parts coated. We can fit roughly 4 guns (frame,slide, barrel, & small parts) per order/batch. The first batch is full and it sounds like we have enough guns/interest to do a second. Please confirm with me through pm if you are interested and what parts you want included. For this first batch we want to have all the parts being coated to Calico by April 15th, so if you want in please be ready to ship out your items by then. Batch #1: Maxximuss Zmego Jay Coop Batch #2: Waktasz Iceman2733 (2 guns?) Praff *One open spot if Iceman doesn't do 2 guns* Edited March 26, 2014 by Maxximuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxximuss Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Here is the info on Calico Coatings. http://www.calicocoatings.com/ Tech Line: 704.483.2202 Fax: 704.483.2145 Shipping Address: 5883 Balsom Ridge Road Denver, NC 28037 USPS Mailing Address: P.O. Box 901 Denver, NC 28037 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxximuss Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 David Adams is our point of contact with Calico Coatings. He has been great to work with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmego Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Here is a rough price breakdown for the TiCN coatings from Calico. It is $650 for whatever they can fit in the chamber. A typical chamber can hold roughly 4 guns (slide, frame, barrel, and small parts), or about 20 BCG. We are simply dividing up the cost based on the space your parts take up. For example if we are coating 4 guns then it would be $650/4, or $162.50 plus return shipping per gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praff Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Maxximuss. Thanks for organizing this. Much appreciated. I am really interested to see how the initial parts turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 What's the timeline for the 2nd batch? thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman2733 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Also is there any other pics you have Maxximuss to show the finishes color? You are doing something awesome buddy for a lot of people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Any idea if they will have any issues blasting off old cerakote? I thought my gun was blued but I asked the former owner and I was wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnyglock Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 waktasz I do a lot of Cerakote work and blasting it off is no problem at all. As long as they have at least 180 grit it will come off in a jiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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