TNGrumpy Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I've seen 2011 pistols sell 2k up to $4500. What do custom gunsmiths do to make them that much better than stock? Why are the price differences between smiths so different, don't they use mostly the same internal parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Spend an evening or two on here reading and researching and you'll find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 When you have a custom gun that is tighter after 5, 000+ rounds than a factory gun you will know why we pay what we do. You are not paying for the parts. You are paying for the skills to fit them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B45C22 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 SV-COP can show you one of his many SVI guns and you will see the light. Think about it like this - factory guns start out as a bin full of frames, a bin full of slides, a bin full of barrels. Every slide has to fit every frame and every barrel. The only way to do that is to size them based upon the highest tolerance part. Therefore everything in a bit loose. If your main concern is that it go bang every time (glock etc) then that looseness helps. If you actually want accuracy, that whole approach just goes out the window. With a custom gun, all parts are bought oversized and must be fitted by hand. That insures that everything is smooth and tight. As for different gunsmiths charging different prices, well ask your wife why shoes at dillards are $100's of dollars and why designer shoes are $1000's. Some look different and that is what people want and they are willing to pay a premium for it. Some smiths - Akai, Bedell, etc have a reputation for their guns being ultra reliable. That also brings a premuim. SVI is in a whole different category. You have to hold one to know what I am talking about. You will throw a factory edge on the ground when you pick it up after fondling a SV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 SV Cop.......I can hardly wait to put that to the test.....My STI will be my back up gun to my new SVI gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 My newest Limited gun: My highest round count LImited gun: My first duty/LImited gun on the right with my current duty gun on the left: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 My newest Limited gun: My highest round count LImited gun: My first duty/LImited gun on the right with my current duty gun on the left: Holy Cow!!!! You Sir are a lucky man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kratos Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 My newest Limited gun: My highest round count LImited gun: My first duty/LImited gun on the right with my current duty gun on the left: I want to be like you when I grow up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I don't think the cost of labor is as much of a factor as options wanted by the customer. In comparing several smiths before having my 2011 built, they were all about the same ballpark. The primary difference between them was timeline. The difference between a custom 2011 running $2.5k and $4k could be the difference between using mostly STI parts and WC bulletproof parts. Aesthetics such as FCS, serrated flat top, French border and finish just to name a few. Keep in mind, smiths doing full builds aren't getting rich. It's more profitable for them to spend an afternoon completing trigger jobs and flush cut barrel crowns and it is to spend a week+ on a single build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I don't think the cost of labor is as much of a factor as options wanted by the customer. In comparing several smiths before having my 2011 built, they were all about the same ballpark. The primary difference between them was timeline. The difference between a custom 2011 running $2.5k and $4k could be the difference between using mostly STI parts and WC bulletproof parts. Aesthetics such as FCS, serrated flat top, French border and finish just to name a few. Keep in mind, smiths doing full builds aren't getting rich. It's more profitable for them to spend an afternoon completing trigger jobs and flush cut barrel crowns and it is to spend a week+ on a single build. I don't build guns but I don't think it takes nearly a week for a good smith to build a gun. With all the parts on hand I'd be willing to bet one can be built in a day. Still, they are not getting rich though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) I don't know if I want a gun from a smith that claims 1 day service. =D Edited January 25, 2014 by v1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I don't know if I want a gun from a smith that claims 1 day service. =D Think about it. With the mills and shop and all the parts. How long could it take? One day service is not what I'm talking about. It takes time to get the parts. It takes time to get a gun chromed, etc. Most of the wait involved is just the time it takes to get to your build in the line. It doesn't take SV 18 months to build a gun. It just takes that long to get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3180 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I don't know if I want a gun from a smith that claims 1 day service. =DThink about it. With the mills and shop and all the parts. How long could it take? One day service is not what I'm talking about. It takes time to get the parts. It takes time to get a gun chromed, etc. Most of the wait involved is just the time it takes to get to your build in the line. It doesn't take SV 18 months to build a gun. It just takes that long to get one.I think your point is proven by Gary. I sent my parts to Gans, 9 days later I was shooting it. Take out the 2 days for shipping and he told me he didn't work on it over the weekend. Bam 5 days to take a box of parts and turn them into a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbet83 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) I don't build guns but I don't think it takes nearly a week for a good smith to build a gun. With all the parts on hand I'd be willing to bet one can be built in a day. Still, they are not getting rich though. I love this comment! Nothing like someone that admittedly doesn't have a clue how to build a gun, saying how long it should take to build one. Priceless Machine slide/frame rails, then hand lap slide and frame fit Set up CNC machine and flat top slide. Re-Set up CNC machine and do slide lightening/cocking serrations on one side of slide. Re-Set up the other side of slide and lightening/cocking serrations on other side of slide. Move slide over to end mill and do front and rear sight cuts. Fit barrel, with includes fitting bushing, upper and lower lugs, fitting hood and timing barrel. Now you have to chamber that barrel, as most barrels aren't aren't finished chambers, then polish chamber and feed ramp. Machine frame for barrel. Radius guide rod for barrel link clearance. Set up slide stop, I've never seen this part down, but know the slide stop and link are huge in timing the gun Fit and tune extractor, then flush it by hand with back of slide. Fit oversized slide stop and radius bottom. Fit ejector and flush it by hand with back of slide. Fit trigger bow to frame/grip (SVI trigger) Stipple and under cut grip Blend Grip to magwell Fit and tune thumb safeties, then blend by hand to frame. Fit and tune grip safeties, then blend by hand to frame. Stone sear primary and secondary angles Polish and fit disconnector. Stone Hammer hooks. Now complete trigger job; adjust sear spring, check sear engagement, reset, overtravel, pretravel etc. Instal plunger set up, sights, main spring, Most guns come with a mag, so now you tune the mag, polish it inside and out, tune the feed lips. Now comes the finish work, sand blast, polish etc. Now you need to go shoot it, make sure everything is good to go; trigger, safeties, feeding, extracting, ejector etc. Now what kind of finish do you want, hard chrome, blued etc. (Most these finishes take days to do once you start) I'm sure I've forgotten a few things, but still, every one of those things can take hours to do properly. If someone can explain how that can be done in a day, I'd love to hear it. Most true hand built custom guns are going to have 30-50 hours of work on them, depending on options, finish, machine work and the all important luck of things going together. Sometimes they go together great, sometimes they take alittle more more work. FYI I've never built a gun, just have a little idea of what they do. Edited January 25, 2014 by jrbet83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 One day. Yeah. That is massively ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 10 hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) Wow, I've see pictures of Caspian slided Glocks...maybe that can be done in a day...but not a complete gun. 30-50 hrs sounds about right...given the breaks on parts and client preferances....just say'n Edited January 25, 2014 by Carmine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) Look at if from this point of view.....Everything at Infinity starts out as billet bar stock. So, it takes a while to fill your bin with all the parts, then you are simply waiting your turn in line for the actual build time. Edited January 26, 2014 by SV-COP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnyglock Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Takes me about 30-35 hrs on the guns i've built myself. Thats a conservative est. Granted I do not do it every day but I do have a mill and other equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Gary built my 2011, so I'm aquainted with short build times. As SV-COP already stated, most of the lead time is just waiting your turn in line. I can get a complete paint job done on my car in 1 day as well, but I'd rather not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Gary built my 2011, so I'm aquainted with short build times. As SV-COP already stated, most of the lead time is just waiting your turn in line. I can get a complete paint job done on my car in 1 day as well, but I'd rather not. MAACO is the bomb!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) I don't think the cost of labor is as much of a factor as options wanted by the customer. In comparing several smiths before having my 2011 built, they were all about the same ballpark. The primary difference between them was timeline. The difference between a custom 2011 running $2.5k and $4k could be the difference between using mostly STI parts and WC bulletproof parts. Aesthetics such as FCS, serrated flat top, French border and finish just to name a few. Keep in mind, smiths doing full builds aren't getting rich. It's more profitable for them to spend an afternoon completing trigger jobs and flush cut barrel crowns and it is to spend a week+ on a single build. I don't build guns but I don't think it takes nearly a week for a good smith to build a gun. With all the parts on hand I'd be willing to bet one can be built in a day. Still, they are not getting rich though. There's no way it's going to be done in a day even if you have machines dedicated to specific tasks. And I can tell you that from experience because I've been in shops that are set up that way. In fact, I've seen pretty much everything from one man shops to full out manufacturing and nobody is building a custom 1911 from start to finish in a day. Sure, you want to slap some parts together and have something that might function, maybe. But a full custom build? No way. Not even close. Edited January 26, 2014 by ltdmstr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I would love to say that I've seen every step, from start to finish, on my guns built at Infinity Firearms, but I haven't. I've seen probably 75% of the process, but not enough to take a chance on stepping on Brandon's toes about build times. But I can say with certainty, that if you include the machining time, the initial finishing of parts, major fitting of parts (slide/frame, barrel, etc), the actual build (fitting the finished parts into a working firearm) and then the final finish work to make it ready for delivery, there is a LOT of time involved. Much more than a day for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racegun Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 SV-COP can show you one of his many SVI guns and you will see the light. Think about it like this - factory guns start out as a bin full of frames, a bin full of slides, a bin full of barrels. Every slide has to fit every frame and every barrel. The only way to do that is to size them based upon the highest tolerance part. Therefore everything in a bit loose. If your main concern is that it go bang every time (glock etc) then that looseness helps. If you actually want accuracy, that whole approach just goes out the window. With a custom gun, all parts are bought oversized and must be fitted by hand. That insures that everything is smooth and tight. As for different gunsmiths charging different prices, well ask your wife why shoes at dillards are $100's of dollars and why designer shoes are $1000's. Some look different and that is what people want and they are willing to pay a premium for it. Some smiths - Akai, Bedell, etc have a reputation for their guns being ultra reliable. That also brings a premuim. SVI is in a whole different category. You have to hold one to know what I am talking about. You will throw a factory edge on the ground when you pick it up after fondling a SV. I disagree with this post. STI doesn't have a bin full of parts and picks the ones that are close to one another. All STI gun parts are oversized and hand fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) [deleted] Edited January 26, 2014 by ltdmstr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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