RNA Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 As the subject states, why don't CZs allow safety engagement with the hammer down or half cock? I know the double action stroke should be "safe enough," but I carry AIWB and I want as much protection as I can. Doesn't seem like there are any disadvantages to allowing for this option, only limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon49erfan Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 If you want it to be safe, don't pull the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feralshooter Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 You should be able to engage the safety at half cock. IMO This would also be a good carry condition as you have the safety and the longer, heavier pull as an extra level of safety. What model do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ85Combat Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 If you pull the trigger with the safety engaged you can damage you gun. that is why the gun was designed not to have the safety on in the hammer down &/or 1/2 cocked position. There are some CZ's that will let you put the safety on in the hammer down &/or 1/2 cocked position, but just because you can doesn't mean you should! In the terrifying 1/2 second of having to pull your gun you will not remember to take the safety off, and if you pull the trigger hard with it on you just might bend or break some thing & now your gun will not fire. Do you want to take that chance? Your CZ is safe with hammer down or cocked & locked. Cocked & locked is what the safety is for. I carry hammer down, don't want to take the chance of the safety being bumped to the off position & not know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I am with 85 combat. forget the safety. it's a double action pistol and as such carry condition is best with hammer down and safety off. When the adrenaline is pumping are you going to want to fumble with a safety? just pull it out, aim, and shoot. it's plenty safe that way. otherwise consider cocked and locked as advised above. but if it were my carry pistol I'd feel much safer hammer down safety off than cocked and locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Oi... Lets not try and offer up absolutes here guys. People have been killing people with 1911's for over 100 years so....yeah... Both of my guns will allow the safety to be put on with the hammer down... A standard SP01 and a Shadow Target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czhase Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Regardless if said firearm will or won't allow the the safety to be engaged with hammer down it is a bad idea to use the safety in any position other that fully cocked. If the trigger gets pulled DA with safety on it binds the hammer hooks against the bottom of the sear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 You are your safety. No need for a manual safety on a DA gun. The whole point of carrying a gun is being able to fire it if you need to. The safest thing is to not even load it and leave it in the safe. But that will not do you any good if you ever need the gun.pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNA Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 I have a pcr, which doesn't have a safety anyway, but I would prefer one that allows engagement with the hammer down over a decocker any day. All of the arguments so far are supportive of CZs choice, but I still don't buy it. Yes, proper training should make an accidental pull off the trigger improbable, but I'd still like more safety in case clothing or anything else gets caught in the trigger guard and puts pressure on the trigger during reholstering. It's not as big a liability as people argue. HK pistols use a safety/decocker that allows hanger down engagement and they're considered one of the best combat pistols on earth. There's a way to do it, obviously, so it's not a question of a lack of engineering. More options are always better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ85Combat Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 CZ's are not engineered to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czhase Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 CZ 85 is correct, for whatever reason only about half of the CZ's will allow the safety to be engaged with the hammer down. This is not an engineered feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon49erfan Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 When are you speed re holstering so fast you can't see something in the trigger guard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgardner Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 You shouldn't be able to put the safety on the CZ 75, 85 or 97 unless it is at least at half cock. The sear needs to rotate enough upon reset to let the safety slide under the leg that makes it safe and when fully forward it is impossible to do that. You could fit the safety so that the leading edge of it is at a different arc than the portion that is ultimately under the sear leg at safe so that it would be low enough to fit under the leg and appear to be at safe position but that's not proper. The leading edge of the safety needs to be high enough so that it engages at half or full cock and slides under and supports the sear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp51 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I have a Canik C-100 (PCR clone) and the safety works no matter where the hammer is. I don't use it but I do like to have the option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I always laugh when I hear people flustered about a safety on a pistol. Most of your fighting long guns have a safety that you deactivate when you use them right? It's not like we are talking about a safety on a DAO gun. To me there is a reason that the decocker CZs don't go fully hammer down. They where designed not be carried fully hammer down. That's why if you have one with a safety you carry it cocked and locked. I think they are DA more for restrike capabilities than anything else. This is just my speculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 To me there is a reason that the decocker CZs don't go fully hammer down. They where designed not be carried fully hammer down. With the firing pin blocks models, it really doesn't matter - at least that is what some folks in the know have told me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspiredm3 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Unload the gun, put it in your holster, then TRY anyway you can to pull the trigger accidentally (without using your finger of course). That should change your mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I always laugh when I hear people flustered about a safety on a pistol. Most of your fighting long guns have a safety that you deactivate when you use them right? It's not like we are talking about a safety on a DAO gun. You know of any double action rifles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgardner Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Rossi Circuit Judge comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Its not about being flustered but you simple do not need a safety on a DA handgun. If you can't trust yourself then you should not be carrying a gun.pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNA Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 "Its not about being flustered but you simple do not need a safety on a DA handgun. If you can't trust yourself then you should not be carrying a gun." That's a bit reductionist. Why not just carry hammer back and no safety. Afraid you might pull the trigger? If you can't trust yourself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNA Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 So far, there hasn't been a good explanation about the design decision NOT to include the feature of hammer down + safety engaged. If you don't feel the new, don't engage the safety. That's your choice. I'm simply making the argument that CZ should have designed their safety so you CAN engage hammer down, if that's what you want to choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Only reason I can think of is they didn't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 "Its not about being flustered but you simple do not need a safety on a DA handgun. If you can't trust yourself then you should not be carrying a gun." That's a bit reductionist. Why not just carry hammer back and no safety. Afraid you might pull the trigger? If you can't trust yourself... Not quite. The gun was not designed to be carried that way and items such as clothing could get in the trigger guard causing the trigger to be pulled when re-holstering. That is not going to be an issue with the gun on DA or with the gun cocked and locked. Basically people who want that so called extra level of safety don't trust themselves much like people who carry condition 3 empty chamber. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNA Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 "Not quite. The gun was not designed to be carried that way and items such as clothing could get in the trigger guard causing the trigger to be pulled when re-holstering. That is not going to be an issue with the gun on DA or with the gun cocked and locked." The question is why ISN'T the gun designed for hammer down safety? That same tangle of clothing and debris that you fear can pull a single action trigger during reholstering can pull a double action, too. And here's another question: what negative impact would it cause you if the option was available? I would think none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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