Shooting extra classifiers

[alpha-charlie]

But, I do understand a bad run, a jammed gun, mag not reloaded, any number of things that produce a run not typical of a shooters true skill set.

Do these qualify for a reshoot at a match? Having your gear dialed in and reliable is a big part of this game. The pressure involved in a classifier is a huge part of performance. After shooting it once the pressure is off. You've already blown it so what've you got to lose? This is an unfair advantage that you are able to purchase.

[Nik Habicht]

Respectfully Nik, their score demonstrates their ability. There are no other accurate measures of a shooter's ability.

How someone performs when they come to the match IS their appropriate classification, not what they think they can do because they did it once in practice or on the ninth reshoot of a stage.

Just my dickish opinion ;-)

Mark

Depends on the circumstances, doesn't it? If a Master with 5 95% scores, puts up a D class score because they had a squib, I have a hard time calling that shooting the classifier to their ability.....

Certainly that run counts for match score -- but for classification purposes, it doesn't represent the shooter's ability, unless we're looking for it to represent their skill as a reloader....

[Nik Habicht]

But, I do understand a bad run, a jammed gun, mag not reloaded, any number of things that produce a run not typical of a shooters true skill set.

Do these qualify for a reshoot at a match? Having your gear dialed in and reliable is a big part of this game. The pressure involved in a classifier is a huge part of performance. After shooting it once the pressure is off. You've already blown it so what've you got to lose? This is an unfair advantage that you are able to purchase.

There's a difference between a reshoot for score, and a reshoot for classification. And the Classifier Course Book sets out USPSA's position pretty cleanly.....

If you can't accommodate reshoots for match administration reasons -- o.k.

If you think you're upholding something sacred and undefinable -- you ought to reat the friggin manual, 'cause you're wrong..... :devil:

[alpha-charlie]

No. Not upholding anything sacred. Just pride. Pride of knowing I made it where I did by shooting at a certain level on demand. Whether it was the first stage or the last stage.

[alpha-charlie]

Double

Edited December 10, 2013 by alpha-charlie

[outerlimits]

The manly art of grandbagging

[whitedog]

Reshooting it once due to an actual reason, I'm ok with. Yer load crapped the bed or gun went tits up. Not to make a class....that's being an ass hat. Classifiers are supposed to show ability, not reloading skills or some such.

I do, however, believe it should be put in the rules as only once and at a set standard fee. Like an arb. Reshoot? $5.00...once.

[Chris iliff]

I don't ever reshoot classifiers, I figure this is the best reflection of my ability. I am a high C low B shooter in general, if I reshot classifiers could I move up. Sure could, but then I shoot in a class that is not true to my ability. I have seen people reshoot as many as 3 times. All that means to me is that they will be a class above me I the majors but overall we will be very close together. The downside is now a look like a sandbagger because I regularly score around these elevated shooters. Look st my place in the majors I shoot and I am at 55 to 60 % of the GM score, right where my class is.

Yep, why would you reshoot? But, the opposite is true also. For those people, a reshoot brings about alignment. It works both ways.

[sperman]

I don't understand why everyone gets so worked up over this. If a B shooter wants to have a GM after his name, who cares. He's still going to finish mid pack, even at local matches. I can't see where it hurts anybody but him.

[GuildSF4]

It also appears that some of you are forgetting the other reason for shooting a classifier more than once. Getting an intial classification in another division.

[Sarge]

I don't understand why everyone gets so worked up over this. If a B shooter wants to have a GM after his name, who cares. He's still going to finish mid pack, even at local matches. I can't see where it hurts anybody but him.

Paper GM? NO WAY!!!!!

But this shows there are right and wrong reasons to reshoot a classifier. Quite a bit of difference in shooting one three times to try to get it just right as opposed to knowing you can do it as long as your gun stays together. Everybody loves to scream, "it's the indian, not the arrow", but sometimes it is indeed the arrow.

[whitedog]

Paper GM's....still amazed at that. I'd rather be 1st C than get violated in a class I can't shoot.

Maybe they were not hugged enough as children. ?

[gng4life]

Paper GM's....still amazed at that. I'd rather be 1st C than get violated in a class I can't shoot.

Maybe they were not hugged enough as children.

We were just talking about that at my last match. Someone was telling me that they had a shooter at another club that would go out and do nothing but practice classifiers all the time. He made Master but could not place with the other Masters at the club matches or others. That is the flip side to this but I still think we need to allow what the board has given us the leeway to do and that is to allow shooters to reshoot if it will show their true ability.

I agree with the hugging statement

[Torogi]

I dont like reshoots. Period. Stage ot classifier.

Unless i have a bunch of C, D or M=)

In our club you can shoot multiple divisions in the classifier stage as long as time allows. Just pay the fee. Ive shot a classifier match just to get classified and seen almost everybody (except me) go at least twice.

Not hitting the perfect reload, not the best draw, grip, stance, shot cadence etc i believe is part of ones skill.

Classifier is a test. You dont retake a test until you perfect your score. You go home and review your skill. dryfire, train. Then go back and take the test again and see how hard you practiced your skill.

[whitedog]

I may, or may not, possibly know a shooter who may, or may not, have shot a metric crap ton of classifiers once. Mid B to M in one shoot. He must have practiced his butt off. ?

He don't come around no more.

A reshoot due to Mr. Murphy-ok

Reshoot due to you having hug me issues-no.

[motosapiens]

Paper GM's....still amazed at that. I'd rather be 1st C than get violated in a class I can't shoot.

Maybe they were not hugged enough as children.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think getting a 1st place self-esteem award in a 'class' that is arbitrarily comprised of people who don't practice enough to get bumped up is almost completely meaningless. I look at the overall results, and I look at the class of the shooters near me in the overall if I don't know them, just to get a better idea of my performance. At big matches, I look at my percentage of the top GM's to track and quantify my improvement.

But if you actually do think a 'class' finish is meaningful, then you should be happy to encourage other people to do whatever it takes to classify higher, thus removing some of your 'competition' from that 'class', and perhaps making up for a possible lack of hugs as a child (and resultant lack of self-esteem).

Edited December 10, 2013 by motosapiens

[2MoreChains]

As a shooter, I've reshot a handful of classifiers in the past, but I've not done it in quite some time. I suppose I stopped because I think my first attempt is a reflection of my shooting abilities, which translates into my classification, and is also a good representation of how I shoot any other stage at a local or major match. Purely a personal thing.

As a MD I allow it in keeping with what the rulebook says, and I don't recall if I've ever had the request to do more than one re-shoot. But I do like the idea of raising the reshoot fee. I'll have to ponder that if we start to get a rash of classifier reshoots.

Its funny how I will feel down in the dumps even if I have a good match but tank the classifier, but my post-match spirits are pretty good if I shoot a good classifier but had a lousy match... Maybe its because the classifier score is part of something bigger, whereas match score (especially at a local match) is just for bragging rights which only lasts until the next weekend.

[whitedog]

Paper GM's....still amazed at that. I'd rather be 1st C than get violated in a class I can't shoot.

Maybe they were not hugged enough as children.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think getting a 1st place self-esteem award in a 'class' that is arbitrarily comprised of people who don't practice enough to get bumped up is almost completely meaningless. I look at the overall results, and I look at the class of the shooters near me in the overall if I don't know them, just to get a better idea of my performance. At big matches, I look at my percentage of the top GM's to track and quantify my improvement.

But if you actually do think a 'class' finish is meaningful, then you should be happy to encourage other people to do whatever it takes to classify higher, thus removing some of your 'competition' from that 'class', and perhaps making up for a possible lack of hugs as a child (and resultant lack of self-esteem). [/quote

Don't practice enough??? How many times have you had cancer? How much arthritis do you have? Are you over 50? I could go on.

Unbelievable.....not often I lose my cool like this. I hope you make GM. I hope you become #1 in USPSA. And I hope others like me are not there to see it.

[motosapiens]

Don't practice enough??? How many times have you had cancer? How much arthritis do you have? Are you over 50? I could go on.

Unbelievable.....not often I lose my cool like this. I hope you make GM. I hope you become #1 in USPSA. And I hope others like me are not there to see it.

Not sure why you would lose your cool. I didn't lose my cool over your opinion, even though I strongly disagree with it, and even tho you threw in insulting references like 'not hugged enough'.

I am over 50, and have a body full of titanium replacement parts, but who cares? I still look at the overall results. Crowing about a 'good result' in an arbitrary class seems very limiting to me, as does caring what class someone else is and how they got that way.

I would rather improve my percentage of the winner's score than be '1st' in C (or any other) class. The first means you improved. The second just means you sandbagged harder than your peers.

[motosapiens]

As a shooter, I've reshot a handful of classifiers in the past, but I've not done it in quite some time. I suppose I stopped because I think my first attempt is a reflection of my shooting abilities, which translates into my classification, and is also a good representation of how I shoot any other stage at a local or major match. Purely a personal thing.

I think locally we had 4 or 5 shooters that were just 1 non-sucky score away from getting bumped to B. It's pretty easy in C class to get a score that will hurt you. In B or better, 1 mike or no-shoot or similar issue in a classifier is usually enough to bring the score down to where it won't count.

I haven't seen anyone locally take more than 1 re-shoot. I would mercilessly mock someone who took multiple tries. Heck, I mock some of the guys that only take 1 re-shoot, and they mock me back. It's part of the fun, lol.

[sperman]

Is that how you won your class at the L-10 nationals? By sandbagging harder than everyone else?

[frag316]

Wow, lots of people worked up.

I've reshot classifiers on a few occasions. Usually, it's because I'm working on getting classified in another division, so I'll shoot it with different guns. Don't like it? Sue me.

A few times, I've reshot them because I screwed it up and I don't feel like ruining my average. If I shoot it a second time and screw it up, I let it ride. Don't like it? Sue me.

[motosapiens]

Is that how you won your class at the L-10 nationals? By sandbagging harder than everyone else?

Yep. That's a great example. If you were to ask me how I did at nationals, I'd tell you I was 50th overall (and I was happy with that result). You'll never hear me brag about my 'class' result, or even mention it. If I did, I would expect to me mocked.

I think 'winning' my 'class' is irrelevant, and only happened because they delay the classification updates until after the match.

Note that I don't really care what anyone else does, but I kinda took exception to whitedog's comments about getting 'violated' and not getting enough hugs.

Edited December 10, 2013 by motosapiens

[StraightUp_OG]

I don't re-shoot classifiers for 2 reasons.

1- I am cheap

2- All the other stages in a match can only be shot once. For me I approach the classifiers the same as any other stage.

I wish I would let myself re-shoot but I don't believe that would be fair to me. When I get to the next classification I can be damn sure it was earned.

I am 3ish% away from master and I am sure I could be there by now if I let myself re-shoot a few but that would be just cheating myself on the satisfaction that FOR ME it was earned.

I have a buddy that made Master this year by re-shooting classifiers and I kick his butt all the time. He now regrets being a paper Master cuz he can't beat this A classer. ;-P

Edited December 10, 2013 by StraightUp_OG

[whitedog]

My comment was concerning paper GM's. Or any paper class.

If you need GM or any thing behind yer name so bad that you would shoot stages over and over...you were not hugged enough or weaned too early.

There are those that earned where they are...and be it D or GM...I respect them.