Koppi Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I'm having a hard time deciding 6 or 8. So, I'm doing a survey to find out what the top 130 shooters at USPSA Nationals are going to do? I mean, if Mr. Meculek and Mr. Leatham shoot 8s than what will you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I imagine the guys who are serious about it and have the equipment would bring both and decide after walking the stages, though - I plan on shooting 6 major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 If jerry and leatham and matt and other gm's shoot minor it will be because they brought both rivs with them, walked the stages, and saw an advantage. My 2 cents...if I go I am bringing both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 If jerry and leatham and matt and other gm's shoot minor it will be because they brought both rivs with them, walked the stages, and saw an advantage. My 2 cents...if I go I am bringing both... Agreed, I'll be bringing both, assuming they do not make a stink about changing your declared power factor last minute. For the top guys who have no problem shooting all A's all the time, I imagine the 8 minor will be a no brainer, for us mere mortals who arent quite there yet..... will need all the extra points I can. I'll be sending my entry form in as 6 shot major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I have a strong feeling that they will make the match mostly 6-shot neutral. Although I will probably bring both platforms and be ready to go with either one, my default mode will be 6-major for the stand-alone Nats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harleytech Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Who cares what we're shooting. Let's have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHill Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I will bring both but if it is not a big handicap the 6 shooter will be the go to blaster. Today, tomorrow who knows ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) If jerry and leatham and matt and other gm's shoot minor it will be because they brought both rivs with them, walked the stages, and saw an advantage. My 2 cents...if I go I am bringing both... Agreed, I'll be bringing both, assuming they do not make a stink about changing your declared power factor last minute. For the top guys who have no problem shooting all A's all the time, I imagine the 8 minor will be a no brainer, for us mere mortals who arent quite there yet..... will need all the extra points I can. I'll be sending my entry form in as 6 shot major. I don't think there is anything in the rule book that would stop you either way, chrono will decide what pf you are. If you get there and decide to shoot 8 minor that is how you will be scored. Edited November 18, 2013 by seanc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkizer Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 An interesting statistic...... according to my count of the posted roster, 42% of the 85 shooters signed up for nationals are shooting minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I am bring my 8 shot. I've switched back and forth before. After shooting the 8 it takes some adjustment to shoot the 6 again. I really hope it is just set up like any other national match that I've been to. I think neutering it to just 6 neutral would be a mistake. I expect to drop 2 live rounds on the ground at times but not every reload. It will be a true work of art to design a match that challenges both major and minor shooters and puts them on equal playing fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I will be shooting the 8 shot 627. As almost all the time I shoot minor the 2 added available rounds should benefit me a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 8+1. Oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 An interesting statistic...... according to my count of the posted roster, 42% of the 85 shooters signed up for nationals are shooting minor. The other 58% just don't have 627's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 If jerry and leatham and matt and other gm's shoot minor it will be because they brought both rivs with them, walked the stages, and saw an advantage. My 2 cents...if I go I am bringing both... I don't think Jerry has much of a choice in what he shoots at the Revo Nats, after all the promoting he has done for the 929 and they got him one early it would look pretty bad to abandon it for a 6 shooter. He has been wanting to shoot minor for a while now but it was too much of a disadvantage for him with a 6 shooter. Jerry will be shooting his 929. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I don't think Jerry has much of a choice in what he shoots at the Revo Nats, after all the promoting he has done for the 929 and they got him one early it would look pretty bad to abandon it for a 6 shooter. He has been wanting to shoot minor for a while now but it was too much of a disadvantage for him with a 6 shooter. Jerry will be shooting his 929. The gentleman makes an interesting point indeed. There is and will much talking up of the 929. Jerry will shoot it for sure. He could always run major and reload at six.... Warning: The following is my own mental rehash of the 8/6 debate. Skip it if you like. I had a few questions in my mind about 8 vs. 6 and couldn't see why six ever. By the end I could see an advantage, but it sure seems quite limited. I'm not the greatest mathmagician here, but won't everybody else surely have seen the advantage to extra rounds on board? I see the potential for saved reloads and an instant makeup shot without an extra reload to far out weigh the points of major in a six shot neutral stage. I humbly submit that no stage can truly be a six shot favorite unless it's a short and fast stage with 9-18 rounds where shooters are pushed beyond their ability to keep it all A's. People make mistakes and the eight shot carries two eraser rounds on board. Imagine a six shot leaving a Charlie while the eight shot makes it up. When is that extra split not worth the extra points? What about taking shots and getting those extra points instead of leaving them because it's cheaper than a reload? No you cannot shoot makeup shots all day and still beat a cleaner six shooter. We all know this. I forget who brought it up, but an eight shot can always dump two live rounds if need be. You're giving me two seconds every time you reload and I don't. The game has been A's only for a long time and now there's extra shots to make up for it in one platform and not the other. The one gun can get through eight shots without a reload; the other cannot. The game is based upon eight shot arrays and revolver shooters are a minority such that they will not be accommodated at majors except a stand alone national. So what's the real argument here? Major PF makes up for imperfections of accuracy more so than extra shots? It didn't show up in single stack as an advantage because the major gun always had the number of shots in the array plus one so the minor guys couldn't shoot the extra shot and make it out of the array in time as major point scoring would eat up the extra split over the course of the stage. If the major shooter did have to reload because he shot his ninth shot, what's the big deal? The number of reloads should remain even as no one wants to eat a standing reload. Revolver doesn't have this luxury. Feel free to submit your thoughts and/or edgemacate me. I can't see how this is a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It's all about stage design. I absolutely guarantee you Jerry will be ready to go with both 6 and 8, and will decide which gun to use after he sees the stages. You gotta remember this is PASA. They understand this stuff, and may have already decided to make the match 6-neutral in order to quiet down the complainers. They have always designed the SSN to favor the major 1911s, and they may do the equivalent for Revo. All they would need to do is pull, or move, a few targets here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cd662 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 "Agreed, I'll be bringing both, assuming they do not make a stink about changing your declared power factor last minute. For the top guys who have no problem shooting all A's all the time, I imagine the 8 minor will be a no brainer, for us mere mortals who arent quite there yet..... will need all the extra points I can. I'll be sending my entry form in as 6 shot major." Declare major if you aren't sure. If you decide to shoot your 8 shot, you'll be checked to make sure you make minor power factor since all 8 shots are minor PF scoring. I was listed as major power factor at Area 7 and I intentionally shot minor, they took note at the chrono that I did not make major, no harm no foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 \For the top guys who have no problem shooting all A's all the time, I imagine the 8 minor will be a no brainer, for us mere mortals who arent quite there yet..... will need all the extra points I can. I'll be sending my entry form in as 6 shot major." OK, there are no top guys who have no problem shooting As all the time. The top guys are always pushing the speed envelope, and they shoot plenty of Cs and Ds. Minor sucks. The people who think that 8-minor is a "no-brainer" are not factoring in the serious handicap that minor scoring creates, for all of us. If the match is designed to be mostly 6-round neutral, the winning gun will almost assuredly be a 625. It will depend on how the stages are set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Not shooting either! We (Elizabeth and l) will not be attending the Nationals. BUT, If we were we would both be shooting MAJOR with our 646s :-) Hopalong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 OK, there are no top guys who have no problem shooting As all the time. That's exactly what a top guy would say to trick the underlings! If jerry and leatham and matt and other gm's shoot minor it will be because they brought both rivs with them, walked the stages, and saw an advantage. My 2 cents...if I go I am bringing both... I don't think Jerry has much of a choice in what he shoots at the Revo Nats, after all the promoting he has done for the 929 and they got him one early it would look pretty bad to abandon it for a 6 shooter. He has been wanting to shoot minor for a while now but it was too much of a disadvantage for him with a 6 shooter. Jerry will be shooting his 929. Jerry will shoot the gun that he thinks he will win with, end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 At last year's USPSA Revo Nats, Jerry shot 75% A hits, with no penalties. It was one of the cleanest matches I have seen him shoot. But that would be a lot of points down if he were saddled with minor scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) At last year's USPSA Revo Nats, Jerry shot 75% A hits, with no penalties. It was one of the cleanest matches I have seen him shoot. But that would be a lot of points down if he were saddled with minor scoring. If you shoot 75% A's, 25% B or C's, minor scoring will drop your points 5% vs major. Gets worse if you throw in some D's or if your A's percentage is lower. Shoot 50% A's, 50%D's you take a 25% points hit, major vs minor. Edited February 7, 2014 by Tom E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 this is as bad as listening to sports experts before the big game....... ain't nobody know nothing till show time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosshoss Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 If I have any imput, it will not be 6 then 6 then 6, that is not the real world for revolver shooters in the real world. Jay 2013 REV. Nat'ls RM It's all about stage design. I absolutely guarantee you Jerry will be ready to go with both 6 and 8, and will decide which gun to use after he sees the stages. You gotta remember this is PASA. They understand this stuff, and may have already decided to make the match 6-neutral in order to quiet down the complainers. They have always designed the SSN to favor the major 1911s, and they may do the equivalent for Revo. All they would need to do is pull, or move, a few targets here and there. I quoted Jay(last and this years RM) from another thread. I know he doesn't have the call on the stages but I would think that he has some input. Why would they make the match "6 neutral"? I was told that minor scoring would make the playing field level. So there is no advantage to having 8 rounds . I guess that didn't apply to classifiers as we had to retire 19 of them to level that playing field. If they make this match "6 neutral" we will never find out how the 2 different guns compete side by side. Most everyone will go with a 6 shot if it is 6-6-6-6. Well this rule has everyone talking about Revolver division but unfortunately it is not in the best way. On this and other forums we are getting bashed for everything from classifiers getting dropped to the way the BOD implemented the new rule to this being the demise of USPSA to the future of stages all being 6 neutral. I'm ready for shooting season to start, and I hope the locals won't be to hard on me for being a revolver shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 There's no reason for non-revolver guys to even have an opinion on this. The rule change has no meaningful effect on them at all. Classifiers getting dropped? Who cares. Regardless, better to get bashed but still have a Revolver Division in which to compete, Bosshoss. We were not going to survive at the previous participation levels. I hope the rule change makes a difference, but I'm not holding my breath. But--having already signed up for Revolver Division at most of the major USPSA matches in my area, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I hope everybody else who enjoys shooting revolvers in competition does the same thing. I don't want to win plaques or prizes by default.......I want lots of good healthy competition in the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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