bikerburgess Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 So that interpretation is the final word from HQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barefoot Shooter Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 So that interpretation is the final word from HQ? No one knows, they will let us know when they feel like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Rule explanations will be put out quarterly, no instant gratification. Rule revisions in response to shooter requests will treated annually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 It is possible to remove a lot of the subjectivity of the scoring and running of a stage and somebody is driving it deeper into subjective land. This rule is far worse than the round dumping rule. It's easier to descend into subjective favoritism with the feet movement reload rule. It would appear that efforts are firmly in place to make sure idpa is not confusable with any other shooting sport. It's starting to look as though they've overplayed their hand as dissent mounts from the ensuing confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) built this to practice my reloads... Edited October 31, 2013 by GmanCdp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prk Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 haLARIOUS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMark Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 IPSC / USPSA started as pratical shooting very little rules and no limits on equipment. It went from 7 shots 1911 45 ACP, and Revolvers, to 20 plus round 38 Supers The equipment race ran a lot of people off, me being one of them. This was before Single stack, Limited and Production classes. I should have waited. A lot of the guys that started IPSC / USPSA left and started IDPA. leaving out the things they did not like in IPSC. It was a good thing. you can buy a factory gun and have fun. I guess they feel a need to make a change. I'm not sure where they are going. Why make changes now? A lot of guys are pissed about the standing reload, I am and I have not shot my first match yet. What about the holster change, dowel rod thing. How many guys are going to have to buy new equipment, for that. Rule should be black and white, not gray. I got a XDM 9mm to start shooting IDPA, but they have pissed me off before geting started. I will shoot a few local matches and see. I may just shoot USPSA Limited. I can load 19 rounds in the mag and reload when I like. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macgulley Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 built this to practice my reloads...reload practice.jpg :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmbaccolyte Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Yep, if you don't like games with rules, it's best to move on from IDPA. Then you too can do stuff like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo441dQzh6w No offense to Ben intended at all...very creative. I loved the video. Ben is an amazing shooter, he probably would have left everyone in the dust even if he had shot the stage the way it was intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Yep, if you don't like games with rules, it's best to move on from IDPA. Then you too can do stuff like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo441dQzh6w No offense to Ben intended at all...very creative. I loved the video. Ben is an amazing shooter, he probably would have left everyone in the dust even if he had shot the stage the way it was intended. NO question, but the video show what a lack of real rules looks like. That way of shooting the stage was technically perfectly legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Yep, if you don't like games with rules, it's best to move on from IDPA. Then you too can do stuff like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo441dQzh6w No offense to Ben intended at all...very creative. I loved the video. Ben is an amazing shooter, he probably would have left everyone in the dust even if he had shot the stage the way it was intended.NO question, but the video show what a lack of real rules looks like. That way of shooting the stage was technically perfectly legal. I disagree with that assessment. The game has rules. The shooter followed those rules. Just because the game doesn't tell the shooter what to do every step of the way isn't the same thing as "a lack of real rules." Stage designers present a challenge. It is the shooters job to come up with the best way to solve the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Model19 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Exactly Scott. Much more of a mental challenge. And when you see somebody shoot a stage like that and you already had your turn you think "Oh crap, why didn't I think of that!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RammerJammer Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Yep, if you don't like games with rules, it's best to move on from IDPA. Then you too can do stuff like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo441dQzh6w No offense to Ben intended at all...very creative. I loved the video. Ben is an amazing shooter, he probably would have left everyone in the dust even if he had shot the stage the way it was intended.NO question, but the video show what a lack of real rules looks like. That way of shooting the stage was technically perfectly legal. Im really not trying to be a jerk this is a serious question: Have you ever shot a USPSA match? I started in IDPA and after my first USPSA match IDPA is like free throw practice. I love the people at my local club and wish i could shoot on Saturday but I just can't do it anymore it is the most frustrating thing on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 NO question, but the video show what a lack of real rules looks like. That way of shooting the stage was technically perfectly legal. This comment illustrates what envy looks like. It was either legal or he zeroed the stage. Tactically it was genius, as he used elevation, surprise, concealment, and superior firepower to defeat all threats as efficiently as possible. It doesn't take a step by step script where everyone does exactly the same thing all the time to have real rules. The failure to do right rule prevents creativity and exploitation of other than the prescribed solution, they should call it the impractical nonconformance penalty. INCP. Choice is a good thing. In the world of men that is real, we are faced with countless choices and our practical shooting sports should reflect this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) Like I said before, kudos to Ben's creativity!! That was obviously not the way the stage designer intended the stage to be shot. Because "that game" has few/no rules about shooting or reloading behind cover, shooting positions, or threat priority, "liberties" like this can be taken with stage execution. Is that a good thing? I don't think so, but I guess we'll agree to disagree here. That's why it's a good thing both games exist. There's room for different schools of thought. Edited November 3, 2013 by BillR1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) Yep, if you don't like games with rules, it's best to move on from IDPA. Then you too can do stuff like this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo441dQzh6w No offense to Ben intended at all...very creative. I loved the video. Ben is an amazing shooter, he probably would have left everyone in the dust even if he had shot the stage the way it was intended.NO question, but the video show what a lack of real rules looks like. That way of shooting the stage was technically perfectly legal.Im really not trying to be a jerk this is a serious question: Have you ever shot a USPSA match?.Yep, just one. I'm not a fan. It seemed more like a track meet and less about tactical shooting skills. The scoped handguns and holsters that were entirely impractical for everyday carry just reinforced the idea that it's really a drastically different game. I could probably get used to it, but I prefer the structure and rules of IDPA. Edited November 3, 2013 by BillR1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 NO question, but the video show what a lack of real rules looks like. That way of shooting the stage was technically perfectly legal. This comment illustrates what envy looks like. Tactically it was genius, as he used elevation, surprise, concealment, and superior firepower to defeat all threats as efficiently as possible. Envy? Yep, I wish I could shoot HALF as well as Ben! Tactical genius...only if the threats are unarmed and not shooting back. If those were armed threats, do you really think he could've eliminated all of them (while being exposed to all of them!) before getting shot, even with HIS skill level? Doubtful. Now if you're talking about tactics to compete/win a USPSA match, then it WAS genius. Concealment? I must've missed that part...I'll go look again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Envy? Yep, I wish I could shoot HALF as well as Ben! Tactical genius...only if the threats are unarmed and not shooting back. If those were armed threats, do you really think he could've eliminated all of them (while being exposed to all of them!) before getting shot, even with HIS skill level? Doubtful. Now if you're talking about tactics to compete/win a USPSA match, then it WAS genius. Concealment? I must've missed that part...I'll go look again. Concealment behind the top of the "wall"! C'mon it's better than the blue barrels we've all shot through and still hid behind. In reality there's a good chance Ben could've prevailed, but then again we're confined to target shooting discussion here. The biggest problem armed threat targets pose is to the sanity of the person stuck painting them before the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Envy? Yep, I wish I could shoot HALF as well as Ben! Tactical genius...only if the threats are unarmed and not shooting back. If those were armed threats, do you really think he could've eliminated all of them (while being exposed to all of them!) before getting shot, even with HIS skill level? Doubtful. Now if you're talking about tactics to compete/win a USPSA match, then it WAS genius. Concealment? I must've missed that part...I'll go look again. Concealment behind the top of the "wall"! C'mon it's better than the blue barrels we've all shot through and still hid behind. In reality there's a good chance Ben could've prevailed, but then again we're confined to target shooting discussion here. The biggest problem armed threat targets pose is to the sanity of the person stuck painting them before the match. Very true...good points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Like I said before, kudos to Ben's creativity!! That was obviously not the way the stage designer intended the stage to be shot. Because "that game" has few/no rules about shooting or reloading behind cover, shooting positions, or threat priority, "liberties" like this can be taken with stage execution. Is that a good thing? I don't think so, but I guess we'll agree to disagree here. That's why it's a good thing both games exist. There's room for different schools of thought. You never know. Sometimes stage designers leave holes in the stage to see if someone will find them. (Usually not that big of a hole, but it does happen.) But the beauty of USPSA is that the "stage designers intent" means absolutely nothing. In fact, stages with only 1 way to shoot them are boring. They are 2 different games with 2 sets of rules, but just because the rules are different between the two sets of games doesn't mean one of them has "a lack of real rules." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryO Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Yep, if you don't like games with rules, it's best to move on from IDPA. Then you too can do stuff like this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo441dQzh6w No offense to Ben intended at all...very creative. I loved the video. Ben is an amazing shooter, he probably would have left everyone in the dust even if he had shot the stage the way it was intended.NO question, but the video show what a lack of real rules looks like. That way of shooting the stage was technically perfectly legal.Im really not trying to be a jerk this is a serious question: Have you ever shot a USPSA match? I started in IDPA and after my first USPSA match IDPA is like free throw practice. I love the people at my local club and wish i could shoot on Saturday but I just can't do it anymore it is the most frustrating thing on earth. My sentiments exactly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Like I said before, kudos to Ben's creativity!! That was obviously not the way the stage designer intended the stage to be shot. Because "that game" has few/no rules about shooting or reloading behind cover, shooting positions, or threat priority, "liberties" like this can be taken with stage execution. Is that a good thing? I don't think so, but I guess we'll agree to disagree here. That's why it's a good thing both games exist. There's room for different schools of thought. You never know. Sometimes stage designers leave holes in the stage to see if someone will find them. (Usually not that big of a hole, but it does happen.) But the beauty of USPSA is that the "stage designers intent" means absolutely nothing. In fact, stages with only 1 way to shoot them are boring. They are 2 different games with 2 sets of rules, but just because the rules are different between the two sets of games doesn't mean one of them has "a lack of real rules." IMO, everyone shooting a stage the same way (IDPA) finds out who the best shooter is. I don't find that boring. The other way simply discovers who is the more creative tactician. Not being a naturally creative person, I prefer the "one way to shoot" stages/games that just let me put my shooting skills up against the other guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 IMO, everyone shooting a stage the same way (IDPA) finds out who the best shooter is. I don't find that boring. The other way simply discovers who is the more creative tactician. Not being a naturally creative person, I prefer the "one way to shoot" stages/games that just let me put my shooting skills up against the other guy. Which is pretty ironic given IDPA stated purpose and principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) IMO, everyone shooting a stage the same way (IDPA) finds out who the best shooter is. I don't find that boring. The other way simply discovers who is the more creative tactician. Not being a naturally creative person, I prefer the "one way to shoot" stages/games that just let me put my shooting skills up against the other guy. Which is pretty ironic given IDPA stated purpose and principles. Such as? From the rulebook: "Our main goal is to test the skill and ability of the individual. Equipment that is designed with no application for daily, concealed carry is not permitted in this sport." and... "1.1.3. Provide a level playing field for all competitors that solely tests the skill and ability of each individual, not their equipment." "1.1.5. Provide shooters with practical and realistic courses of fire, and test skills that could be required to survive life-threatening encounters." How is this contrary (ironic?) to what I said? Edited November 4, 2013 by BillR1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Such as? From the rulebook: "Our main goal is to test the skill and ability of the individual. Equipment that is designed with no application for daily, concealed carry is not permitted in this sport." and... "1.1.3. Provide a level playing field for all competitors that solely tests the skill and ability of each individual, not their equipment." "1.1.5. Provide shooters with practical and realistic courses of fire, and test skills that could be required to survive life-threatening encounters." How is this contrary (ironic?) to what I said? The other way simply discovers who is the more creative tactician I find that pretty ironic and will leave it at that so I don't violate forum rules about "real world"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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