Not-So-Mad Matt Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Have we confirmed that no movement will be allowed during reloads from cover, or is this just one reading of the rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkguy Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Hkguy give me one logical reason why CDP should not allow other calibers? If you only consider PF in deciding what calibers are legal and not legal in a given division, then i have really have no "logical" answer either way other. Why is the .327 mag excluded from SSR? It easily makes PF but yet its illegal? Outside of your PF argument, why should more calibers be allowed in CDP? Honestly the 1911 is the platform is predominately used to compete in CDP though there are some that shoot tupperware. If you look at commonly available 1911, you rarely see any chambered in .40 outside of competitive shooting circles, (besides Para's and STI) you will find a few more 9mm's but a vast majority are .45's. I dont know why, but the BoD wants a place for .45's to play by themselves.I am not overly concerned, it just gives me another reason to buy another pistol, gear, and reloading equipment for my wife to play in that division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 The main problem I see with allowing 10mm back into CDP is sorting 40 from 10. To the "make major" crowd, I can't figure out why they will allow "major 9" in ESR but its a no go elsewhere. That said I have a bunch of 45's so it doesn't hurt me. hinge that squeaks gets the oil, kind of thing, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 "Reason to buy" is read as "equipment race" by many. My wife calls it an "excuse", I call it a "reason" but that is just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkguy Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 "Reason to buy" is read as "equipment race" by many. My wife calls it an "excuse", I call it a "reason" but that is just me. i dont mean to imply "equipment race" at all. My wife wants to shoot CDP with a 1911. We dont have one, so we get to buy a nice blaster along with holsters, a few mags, and pouches. On top of that i eventually get to reload the caliber since i already reload 9mm for SSP/ESP and .38 spl for SSR. i know plenty of people who shoot SR9's and some who shoot with custom limited guns and les baer's in ESP, at the end of the day its usually the person with a glock or M&P who leads the pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Hamby Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Have we confirmed that no movement will be allowed during reloads from cover, or is this just one reading of the rule? I believe the clarification to the clarification draft, will allow you to move behind cover. They didn't go through all the work of whipping up a illustration, showing the cover line, then call "position of cover" and ANY fixed position. "Any fixed" was used to explain it is not arms length away any spot along the cover line. You don't have to be static. You cant leave a position of cover to engage any targets. Advancing through the stage will be clarifies as leaving a position of cover. R9. Under no circumstances may a shooter leave a position of cover with an empty weapon. A position of cover is defined as any fixed location in a stage from which the shooter is required to engage targets from cover. The boundary marking the “position of cover” is the line of cover defined by the last target to be engaged from that position. R9.1. If the shooter runs the firearm empty behind cover, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded. R9.2. When performing a Loaded Cylinder/Loaded Chamber reload, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded. R9.3. A firearm is deemed loaded when the magazine is fully seated and the slide is fully forward or the revolver cylinder is closed. If the shooter “drops” the slide prior to leaving a position of cover, and the slide fails to go fully forward into battery, this shall be considered a malfunction. No penalty shall be assessed as long as the shooter attempts to fire the firearm at the next shooting position. If the shooter attempts to correct the problem while moving to the next shooting position or before attempting to fire the firearm, then a procedural, for leaving cover with an empty weapon, will be assessed. 9.1 means leaving cover with and empty gun. I just believe a shooting position to by dynamic and have a single fixed location for each target on the stage. I believe it to be many different locations on the stage, each one being a fixed location to engage targets. Slicing the pie often takes many fixed locations to engage from within a position of cover. At clubs I shoot targets are not close together tucked behind the wall to stand and hose. They are typically wide and far apart. Each target may have its own fixed position to shoot yet I may not move more than 3 feet within that position of cover. Anxiously awaiting clarification to be made official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Have we confirmed that no movement will be allowed during reloads from cover, or is this just one reading of the rule? I believe the clarification to the clarification draft, will allow you to move behind cover. They didn't go through all the work of whipping up a illustration, showing the cover line, then call "position of cover" and ANY fixed position. "Any fixed" was used to explain it is not arms length away any spot along the cover line. You don't have to be static. You cant leave a position of cover to engage any targets. Advancing through the stage will be clarifies as leaving a position of cover. R9. Under no circumstances may a shooter leave a position of cover with an empty weapon. A position of cover is defined as any fixed location in a stage from which the shooter is required to engage targets from cover. The boundary marking the “position of cover” is the line of cover defined by the last target to be engaged from that position. R9.1. If the shooter runs the firearm empty behind cover, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded. R9.2. When performing a Loaded Cylinder/Loaded Chamber reload, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded. R9.3. A firearm is deemed loaded when the magazine is fully seated and the slide is fully forward or the revolver cylinder is closed. If the shooter “drops” the slide prior to leaving a position of cover, and the slide fails to go fully forward into battery, this shall be considered a malfunction. No penalty shall be assessed as long as the shooter attempts to fire the firearm at the next shooting position. If the shooter attempts to correct the problem while moving to the next shooting position or before attempting to fire the firearm, then a procedural, for leaving cover with an empty weapon, will be assessed. 9.1 means leaving cover with and empty gun. I just believe a shooting position to by dynamic and have a single fixed location for each target on the stage. I believe it to be many different locations on the stage, each one being a fixed location to engage targets. Slicing the pie often takes many fixed locations to engage from within a position of cover. At clubs I shoot targets are not close together tucked behind the wall to stand and hose. They are typically wide and far apart. Each target may have its own fixed position to shoot yet I may not move more than 3 feet within that position of cover. Anxiously awaiting clarification to be made official. I think you are reading the rule the way you want it to be. 9.1 says "you may not advance in the stage until the weapon is deemed loaded." I doesn't say anything about leaving cover, it says ADVANCE. Maybie I don't understand the definition of advance. Apperently that means leave cover. I would say "advance in the stage" means move toward finishing the stage. If you are moving in the direction of target you still need to engage you are advancing. This is very clear, and people are just trying to come up with a way to twist it into saying what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Hkguy give me one logical reason why CDP should not allow other calibers? If you only consider PF in deciding what calibers are legal and not legal in a given division, then i have really have no "logical" answer either way other. Why is the .327 mag excluded from SSR? It easily makes PF but yet its illegal? Outside of your PF argument, why should more calibers be allowed in CDP? Honestly the 1911 is the platform is predominately used to compete in CDP though there are some that shoot tupperware. If you look at commonly available 1911, you rarely see any chambered in .40 outside of competitive shooting circles, (besides Para's and STI) you will find a few more 9mm's but a vast majority are .45's. I dont know why, but the BoD wants a place for .45's to play by themselves.I am not overly concerned, it just gives me another reason to buy another pistol, gear, and reloading equipment for my wife to play in that division. Logically? Because every other division is multicaliber other than CDP!!!! I guess if there is s bunch of 327 SSR shooters then they should be doing the sane complaining I am. As for only a couple manufactures making .40 SS I guess kimber and Springfield aren't major players? I've finished very well with a SPRINGFIELD .40 1911 at USPSA nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Hkguy give me one logical reason why CDP should not allow other calibers? If you only consider PF in deciding what calibers are legal and not legal in a given division, then i have really have no "logical" answer either way other. Why is the .327 mag excluded from SSR? It easily makes PF but yet its illegal? Outside of your PF argument, why should more calibers be allowed in CDP? Honestly the 1911 is the platform is predominately used to compete in CDP though there are some that shoot tupperware. If you look at commonly available 1911, you rarely see any chambered in .40 outside of competitive shooting circles, (besides Para's and STI) you will find a few more 9mm's but a vast majority are .45's. I dont know why, but the BoD wants a place for .45's to play by themselves.I am not overly concerned, it just gives me another reason to buy another pistol, gear, and reloading equipment for my wife to play in that division. Logically? Because every other division is multicaliber other than CDP!!!! I guess if there is s bunch of 327 SSR shooters then they should be doing the sane complaining I am. As for only a couple manufactures making .40 SS I guess kimber and Springfield aren't major players? I've finished very well with a SPRINGFIELD .40 1911 at USPSA nationals. Lets see we have SSP that allows multiple calibers but is a 125 PF division, ESP again multiple calibers and 125 PF. Both revolver divisions multiple calibers. CDP 1 caliber 165 PF. Semi Auto Guns where the off the shelf loads make 165 PF no place to play at full PF unless they are .45acp. Of course you can shoot full 165 PF in a 125 PF division but you do it at a disadvantage, so most of the defensive minded shooters play their defensive game with downloaded ammo. I have concluded Logic and IDPA are not friends but "that's the way we have always done it" and IDPA are best buddies.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertbank Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) Deleted Bob Edited May 16, 2013 by robertbank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I don't see what the fuss is bout letting a 40 in CDP. Also 9major in revo who wants to shoot 9major without a comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I don't see what the fuss is bout letting a 40 in CDP. Also 9major in revo who wants to shoot 9major without a comp? Not this guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I'm still waiting on a logical answer as to why CDP is like all the other divisions and multi caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I'm still waiting on a logical answer as to why CDP is like all the other divisions and multi caliber. ...do you mean to say "why CDP isn't like all the other divisions and multi caliber" or did you change your position ? I offered my reasons, you deem them not to be "logical" which is your prerogative. I gave the best answer I could, one I support whole heartedly. sorry if I fell short . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I'm still waiting on a logical answer as to why CDP is like all the other divisions and multi caliber....do you mean to say "why CDP isn't like all the other divisions and multi caliber" or did you change your position ? I offered my reasons, you deem them not to be "logical" which is your prerogative. I gave the best answer I could, one I support whole heartedly. sorry if I fell short . Chuck I view your position on the matter more emotional , for lack of a better word, than logical. That is completely fine in my book as well Im just trying to look at it more analytically. Like if A = B and B = C then A = C right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 ...no problem, I get it. Logically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 So 4 Divisions multiple caliber 1 division single caliber HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona955i Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 The main problem I see with allowing 10mm back into CDP is sorting 40 from 10. To the "make major" crowd, I can't figure out why they will allow "major 9" in ESR but its a no go elsewhere. That said I have a bunch of 45's so it doesn't hurt me. hinge that squeaks gets the oil, kind of thing, I guess. Eh, .38 super is allowed and it is tough to sort from 9mm brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafdov368 Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I'm really liking how the new rule book used USPSA language in "Comment [TT79]: 5” STI limited type guns with full length steel dust covers (and similar firearms from other manufacturers) are viewed as competition only firearms." Last time I checked, person with the fastest time wins, I've been awarded with a trophy and plaque for the last two sanctioned matches, but wouldn't that make it a competition? ESP weight limit = 43oz STI Edge = 37.6oz The Edge is 2.4 ounces over the Eagle (IDPA legal... with 2.75" dust cover)If you had a 3.25" dust cover which is going to be legal in Oct. the gun would weigh somewhere around 36.3oz. How is roughly 1.3 ounces going to make such a drastic difference in times? "USPSA does it this way so we can't!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 "USPSA does it this way so we can't!!!" You just hit on the "DVC" of IDPA, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Getting close to getting this thread closed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 "USPSA does it this way so we can't!!!" You just hit on the "DVC" of IDPA, man. Variety is the spice of life. Best part is you have CHOICES in this life. NO ONE is twisting your or anyone else's arm to compete anywhere you don't want to or where you don't like the rules of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Getting close to getting this thread closed! It should have been shut down a while ago..especially when the negative IDPA/USPSA comparisons became an factor in the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 They are both games and should be enjoyed by all that wanna shoot. Try out the new stuff and just go with it and be glad we still have the right to enjoy it while we can guys. A day on the range is better than none at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Getting close to getting this thread closed! It should have been shut down a while ago..especially when the negative IDPA/USPSA comparisons became an factor in the discussion. I don't think that's warranted... this has just been a discussion about the rule changes, and discussion (the interesting ones anyway), have more than one side. I haven't seen anyone be disrespectful or mean-spirited... I certainly hope we can disagree in a civil manner. Saying that IDPA has structured many of his rules the way it has just to be different from USPSA doesn't have a positive or negative connotation, it's just an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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