Horrible accuracy, 115 gr plated

[Chucker]

I need some help guys. I'm trying to get a load that will at least hit paper at 25 yds. I'm getting WILD accuracy from my reloads out of a stock Gen 2 G 19 (like 2 FOOT groups, yes that's feet and not inches at 25 yards). Shot spread is all over; high, low, left, and right. Here is what I started out with:

115 gr Xtreme plated

4.7 gr Bullseye (yeah, I know)

1.135" OAL

0.380" taper 'crimp'

Mixed brass

CCI SPP

1130 fps ave

Here is what I tried so far in chronological order:

1) Powder sloshing out of the cases during reloading (on a progressive) - I slowed down the shell plate by hand and made sure there was no grain spillage. Still bad accuracy.

2) Inpsect for over crimp - I pulled 20 bullets. There is not even a witness line let alone cutting marks into the plating. ALL bullets look brand new and can be loaded again.

3) Cleaned barrel - Used copper solvent. Barrel wasn't that dirty to begin with. Still bad accuraccy.

4) Installed new barrel - I bought a brand new KKM drop in barrel since I read that plated bullets and polygonal rifling don't play together well sometimes. Acts just like the stock barrel. Bad accuracy.

5) Changed powder charge - Since Bullseye is fast on the burn chart, I tried 4.1 gr and 4.4 gr Bullseye. 4.1 works o.k. but I get the occasional 8" flyer. Brass just barely gets tossed out of the ejection port. 4.4 gr has horrible accuracy.

6) Changed powder - I tried throwing 4.5 gr W231 since I heard so many people having good luck with it. Worse than wild accuracy. A couple of rounds wouldn't even hit the paper (NRA B-25 target, 25 yds).

At this point I think it's the projectile. Any recommendations? I'd be happy with 5" groups at 25. Any chance of staying with plated? Maybe another manufacturer?

Thanks!

[Joe4d]

Plated in general blow, xtreme's are especially sucky. They're so bad they change their name every few years to sucker in a new group of buyers. They have been Xtreme for awhile now though. Buttt they still blow. On a good note, I put them on my drill press and drilled holes through them and they make pretty good carolina rigging weights.

[assaulter]

I would suspect the bullet. There is only one way to know for sure.....

[The_Vigilante]

Crimp at .380 seems a little loose-try for .368-.372

[wurm]

I give up on plated bullets. I'm working my way through a couple thousand 147gr Xtreme bullets in my Glock 34. I can't get them to shoot nearly as well as jacketed bullets. Tried a couple of different powders, played with crimp and length. Nothing. Oh well. They make allright practice rounds.

[DougCarden]

Titegroup and W231 will give good results with those bullets at around a 1.110 OAL....

DougC

[Jaxshooter]

I have never been able to come up with a decent load with plated bullets no matter what brand I used.

[sierra77mk]

Factory BBL? Could be the polygonal cut rifling and the plated bullets. Have someone with another 9mm shoot some of your loads or try another pistol.

[al503]

I've had great luck with x-treme bullets.

I'm using the 124 grain 9mm round nose and they're giving me less than 1.5" at 25 yards off a bag.

I was using their 220 grain .40's and did notice that accuracy was dependent on powder. Solo and titegroup offered just OK accuracy (~3" at 20 yards.) I got the best accuracy with WST, which was just around 1.5" at 20.

[MichiganTom]

Plated in general blow, xtreme's are especially sucky. They're so bad they change their name every few years to sucker in a new group of buyers. They have been Xtreme for awhile now though. Buttt they still blow. On a good note, I put them on my drill press and drilled holes through them and they make pretty good carolina rigging weights.

I have lead,plated and jacketed bullets, but not enough rigging weights

[Chucker]

I'm using the 124 grain 9mm round nose and they're giving me less than 1.5" at 25 yards off a bag.

Are you using Bullseye as well? How fast are you pushing these loads? What pistol are these coming out of?

Titegroup and W231 will give good results with those bullets at around a 1.110 OAL....

DougC

Interesting. So you've found that OAL is a major contributor to accuracy? How fast are you pushing those 115's?

[DWFAN]

115 Extreme's shoot 2-3 inches at 25 yards in my 9mm 1911. 3.9gr Titegroup.

While some guns don't like plated bullets, and some plated bullets may not shoot very well. I wouldnt just cast a wide generalization and say plated bullets suck. They can be picky, but they can usually be made to shoot acceptably.. especially for USPSA/IDPA accuracy needs.

Blazer Aluminum uses Extreme if I'm not mistaken, and that ammo shoots lights out in most of my production guns.

2 of my buddies (engineer's.. go figure) cut 3 bullets in half. Ranier, Berry's and Extreme. Guess who's was the thickest, and most uniform? Extreme. Almost as thick as a Zero jacketed.

Thinnest? Berry's. Almost like a thin layer of paint.

Edited March 19, 2013 by DWFAN

[Bansheex]

Shooting Steel Challenge, I have had good results shooting Berry's 147gr with 3.6grs of Bullseye at 1.15oal in my XDM open gun. The same load in my G34 also worked pretty good.

[al503]

I'm using the 124 grain 9mm round nose and they're giving me less than 1.5" at 25 yards off a bag.

Are you using Bullseye as well? How fast are you pushing these loads? What pistol are these coming out of?

Alliant e3 at about 132 PF. Schuemann 6" tribrid (unported bbl.)

[Alaskapopo]

I hate plated bullets and generally they cost as much as Montana Gold jacketed bullets. But in this market I guess you have to take what you can get. I prefer cast to plated bullets.

[DougCarden]

Titegroup and w231 are the right speed powders for the 9mm for decent accuracy. 2-3in at 25 is the norm running around 1150. Extremes are the bullets used in cci blazer brass ammo. You have to use minimum taper crimp. They are not primo accuracy bullets but fine for training, local matches, etc.

[Chucker]

Guys, thanks for the responses so far. I've got a bit of this 115 gr plated on hand so ideally I would like to solve this. My accuracy standards are relatively low but I just don't want 'catastrophic' accuracy like I'm experiencing. I did notice some tumbling/yaw from my original load by looking closely at the holes in the paper so that's why I decided to decrease the powder charge. I'm not cutting the plating with crimping so I assumed I must have been driving the bullets too fast.

I'm going to try a couple of ideas from this thread. Please keep the info coming. At this point I have to start trying things a little 'outside the box' for me.

[ronin16]

I use the Extreme's for distances 10yards and in . Makes for good practice ammo when using strong/weak hand only!

Montana Gold's for everything else is the only way to go!

[Chucker]

SOLVED! I kept everything the same but I replaced the plated with 124 gr FMJ from Precision Delta. I also verified that my crimp was actually .368", not .380" as stated orginially.

RESULTS: Groups went from 24+ inches at 25 yds down to about 5" ave. Accuracy went from 'catastrophic' to 'acceptable'.

Final Notes: I probably got a bad batch of 115's HOWEVER, I tried a small sample of Xtreme 124 gr RN from a friend and they flung all over the place also. Bad batch, finicky, or whatever, I can't waste any more time with this. I am still open to the idea that there may be one subtle variable that I am not accounting for but I haven't been able to figure it out. But why should I if jacketed is so much more robust?

That's it. Thanks for all of the suggestions and ideas guys. For those running plated successfully - My tip 'o the hat to you. (Actually Xtreme 230 gr RN has been running fine for years for me....go figure......).

[glockdude1]

I agree...

115 plated is not good accuracy....been there/done that..

With bullets being hard to get, place back-orders with several companies for 124's and they will start trickling in..even MG will also..

I was down to my last 30 bullets and placed orders with 6 different companies (in desperation), and now, 1 month later, I have 6,000 bullets..some are plated and some are jacketed, but the plated ones work fine for plinking at 25 feet...

Here is who I ordered from and got ammo...

Montana Gold..I told them to send whatever they had in 124's and I just got FMJ's...

Rocky Mountain Reloading....got plated 124's

HSM (Liquid Metals Co.)...got 124 plated

Roze Distribution....got 124 HP's

Precision Delta...124 JHP's

Nosler...124 JHP's

The most accurate bullets are definitely the Jacketed Hollow Points (they hit clean and make a nice round hole in your target)...they come out of a barrel with less wobble, due to the way they are balanced...the second most accurate are the Jacketed Round Nose..the least are the plated, because they wobble coming out of the barrel (you can see the "hit" pattern on your target)..

..I am only talking non-lead bullets...now lead SWC's (wad-cutters) are really accurate, but that's a whole different subject..

[lcs]

KKM barrels and plated projectiles do not seem to play well together! I have found the KKM barrels to be quite accurate once the right combination is found.

[G30SF]

Personally with 115grain plated bullets I have to goto a light crimp on the bullet .375 to get them to work. too heavy or too light you don't know where the bullet is going. Now the jacketed bullets a heavier crimp. .371 works pretty good. Then the powder and OAL lengths play a part but the crimp will kill accuracy on the plated.

[Justsomeguy]

SOLVED! I kept everything the same but I replaced the plated with 124 gr FMJ from Precision Delta. I also verified that my crimp was actually .368", not .380" as stated orginially.

RESULTS: Groups went from 24+ inches at 25 yds down to about 5" ave. Accuracy went from 'catastrophic' to 'acceptable'.

Final Notes: I probably got a bad batch of 115's HOWEVER, I tried a small sample of Xtreme 124 gr RN from a friend and they flung all over the place also. Bad batch, finicky, or whatever, I can't waste any more time with this. I am still open to the idea that there may be one subtle variable that I am not accounting for but I haven't been able to figure it out. But why should I if jacketed is so much more robust?

That's it. Thanks for all of the suggestions and ideas guys. For those running plated successfully - My tip 'o the hat to you. (Actually Xtreme 230 gr RN has been running fine for years for me....go figure......).

.368 with a plated bullet is way too tight! In most instances with 9mm you should be coming up with a crimp around .377-.378 or so. Smushing those plated bullets with too tight a crimp will always degrade accuracy. Heck... .368 with ANY bullet seems excessive. If the case mouth is actually smaller than the front of the chamber it will not be seating on the case mouth properly and lots of bad things can happen, including excessive pressure when the case mouth can't release the bullet properly. Back off the crimp die a bit.

[rfwobbly]

I also verified that my crimp was actually .368", not .380" as stated orginially.

Now you are over-crimping. The crimp diameter should be 2 case wall thicknesses plus the diameter of the bullet. That should land you in the .375-.378 area.

[Chucker]

.378" crimp

Sorry guys. Typo.

Justsomeguy got me thinking. While it's probably not the crimp itself, it might be the full length resizing die adjusted down too far giving me too much taper. The pulled bullets looked visually brand new and don't show any crimp lines. However, I measured them and came up with .354". Originally they measured .355" so I am squeezing them down but not from crimping (at .378"). Some of my loaded rounds exhibit a bulge where the seated bullet pushed the casing wall out.