Paul-the new guy Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I bought a used open gun from the forums... I bought some new mags to compliment the mags the gun came with and I put all new springs, followers and base pads on the used mags. Messed around trying to develop a load. (having a hard time with this) Changes out the grip, added a racker and a thumb rest....etc. Tried to shoot the gun in a match and it puked in every way possible. Sent it home with a gunsmith. He worked the gunsmith magic and for a few hundred dollars in parts and a few hundred in labor pronounced the gun GTG. I picked it up from him on match day he handed it to me at the safe table, I stuck it into my holster and proceded to the first stage.... Bang Bang Bang puke... bang puke... light strikes Gunsmith was on my squad, off to the safe table adjust the over travel head off to the next stage. It was very short and involved a classifier remain hot and shoot another stage in the same bay. (I shot a B level on this classifier ) Gun ran great! Althoug I did get to wittness a guy shooting a Glock open gun almost shoot his foot off when re-holstering his hot gun. Next stage Bang Bang Bang puke... Double feed (turns out it was really a FTE that resulted in a double feed) back to the safe table... gunsmith says I need to change the ejector, it is too short. I had already added an AFTEC. I know he is right on this and had planned on doing that but $$$ is a little tight. Next stage involved a reload. Bang bang reload bang puke... nosedive...wtf? Mag issue, ammo issue...driver issue??? Then I was starting to notice, I was on the open squad. 11 shooters and everyone was shooting open except 1 guy, on every stage someone's gun was having issues. FTE, FTF, double feed, FTF... I think everyone had at least 1 stage where the gun didn't run correctly. Is this what I can expect shooting open? Is this the norm?? The gunsmith is putting in the extended ejector this week and told me my rounds were too short 1.220 or so for .38 super. I told him I had to go short because shooting N-105 at 10.5 grains I had to seat them deep so they would be close to what I wanted when I got them to the crimp station They grow because of the compressed load. He said to switch powders so I could get a more consistent OAL. Any way, my gun looks amazing and I think shooting it will be fun! I am just wondering if this is the norm for shooting open.... Aint no fun when you gun don't run... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Open gun are like women... Very unforgiving, but a thing of beauty after you give them the right type of loving. (didn't you already hear my open gun is like a woman monologue?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Why yes, yes i did. Did you shoot open yesterday? Did your gun run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Did the gun when you bought it? (As delivered with no modifications with the original mags...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake32 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 i shoot 10.5 gr vv n105 124gr mg cmj and my gun rarely has a problem. im talking like one time out of 2k rounds. when it does something stupid it is always my fault in some way. open guns run great when built properly and fed the correct ammo. by the way my mags have been tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Very true about the gun not running, makes for a long day. My Open guns have usually run very good. My latest build has went a few thousand rounds at this point without a hiccup at all. And it is filthy! However, I'm trying to see how reliable it is and how long it can take this before malfunctioning. The only one I have had a ton of problems with is a Glock Open pistol but that is the wife's gun and she hasn't shot in a while so I'll get to that later. Did you talk to the previous owner and find out what loads they were using? what problems they had? what changes they made to the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 What was the original configuration? Factory build or custom? If it was factory. Send it back to STI, If custom, talk to the original builder. If custom, by a less than reputable builder, seek help from a reputable builder. Fwiw, it sounds like your mags are at least a large part of the problem. They almost always are. Get the Dawson mag tuning kit and make sure they are in the right spec. My Bedell built 9mm open gun has had exactly one hiccup in 7-8000 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 This was a factory STI GM. It is an older gun that would have come out of the custom shop. The gun did not run well when I got it but it came with factory mags that had never been tuned and had factory parts in them. The gun would shoot ok but had feeding issues. The trigger was horrific. Heavy and creepy. I did not like the flat trigger. I changed out the flat trigger with one I had laying around and started all of the shooting problems. The gun did not have enough pre-travel. When I got that fixed it did not have enough over travel. I used some drop in parts for the ignition group and had issues with the safety.... So a lot of the issues were self induced. I like shooting the N-105 but am having trouble gettin a consistent OAL because it is a compressed load. I am going to go longer and am switching to 3N38. Like I said, more than anything I was shocked at all of the issues that happened to the open shooters on my squad. 3 or 4 of them are going to nationals and they all had an issue or two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revomodel10 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) think Brazo, Bedell, Gans..........I have had great experiences with all...... used open are like used cars..............buy a name brand & increase your chances.... Edited October 7, 2012 by revomodel10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 while I don't shoot open,I had one in my hands one time but I shot a match this weekend with three open shooters and thier gun all ran great...good luck..not all them have troubles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Aside from one bad Wolf primer, my 38 super hasn't malfunctioned in well over 1000 rounds. That's with 3 Dawson-tuned STI mags and one old-style SV big stick (untuned), Dawson pads and Grams spring/followers. Every other spring or follower other than Grams has at some point shown to be inferior - I usually caught those at home just seeing how many rounds the mags would carry and then just popping the rounds out the top with my thumb. There are many ways to alter mags or make ammo that will not work. There's relatively few ways to set up a mag or make ammo that does work. The bad-primer round was handed to me after shooting that stage; later in practice I dropped hammer on that round 6 times, never lit, trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterww Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Aside from one bad Wolf primer, my 38 super hasn't malfunctioned in well over 1000 rounds. That's with 3 Dawson-tuned STI mags and one old-style SV big stick (untuned), Dawson pads and Grams spring/followers. Every other spring or follower other than Grams has at some point shown to be inferior - I usually caught those at home just seeing how many rounds the mags would carry and then just popping the rounds out the top with my thumb. There are many ways to alter mags or make ammo that will not work. There's relatively few ways to set up a mag or make ammo that does work. The bad-primer round was handed to me after shooting that stage; later in practice I dropped hammer on that round 6 times, never lit, trash. My Dawson runs perfect, never any problems unless I do not clean her. I believe the most important thing in this sport is to have a gun that runs, that's how you win. Good luck with your repairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAB33 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 15,000 without a glitch here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue edge Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 think Brazo, Bedell, Gans..........I have had great experiences with all...... used open are like used cars..............buy a name brand & increase your chances.... +1 My Bedell runs 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Get the mag tuning kit. That is the highest value for the money. It will probably solve a few of your problems. The rest may be solved by a trip to Tripp...or one of the other names mentioned here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I think in the last year I have had 2 malfs. One caused by a high primer that I missed, and a failure to feed that I tracked down to a mag spring that I knew was getting long in the tooth but had failed to replace. If built by a good smith, properly prepared, tuned and fed good ammunition a problem should be the rare exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) Get the mag tuning kit. That is the highest value for the money. It will probably solve a few of your problems. The rest may be solved by a trip to Tripp...or one of the other names mentioned here. Whats in the mag tuning kit? My mags drop free and I have polished the inside and the outside. I am using Grams follower and spring. The only tuning I would think I need would be the feed lips is that correct? I have measured them and they seem ok. Edited October 7, 2012 by Paul-the new guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 From what I have seen Open guns are not as temperamental as some seem to make them out to be. All of the guys I know who shoot Open , including myself, have virtually no problems with the guns except for one guy who likes to always dick around with springs and stuff. The guns I see run great every time are all custom guns, not off the shelf STI's. Mine and one other are Cheely's, another is an SV, and another is an Akai. AND they were all new to the shooters when they got them. I frequently see used guns bought that don't run. I'm sorry to say but you need to send that Stock STI to somebody who knows how to build a good gun. Matt Cheely comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike3232 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I have a factory STI matchmaster in super. I'm using 10.3 n105, 124 gr MG at 1.230. It makes major at 174 and the matchmaster is a shorty. If your ammo is growing try backing off on the powder .2 gr and load it to 1.230. You should still make major without a problem. I tuned all my mags myself and use grams guts in them. I may have 1 malfunction every 2 or 3 thousand rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenDot Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Both my Predator Tactical Open guns run 100%!!!!!! All problems were ammo related and that was a year ago....literally been 12 months sinse the last Jam, high primer or squib. They just Run!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) here is the painful video. Light strike after the reload and then the nose dive which is followed by strip, rack, rack, rack a new mag a few rounds then another light strike... Focus on the gun not my pathetic performance Edited October 7, 2012 by Paul-the new guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 I have a factory STI matchmaster in super. I'm using 10.3 n105, 124 gr MG at 1.230. It makes major at 174 and the matchmaster is a shorty. If your ammo is growing try backing off on the powder .2 gr and load it to 1.230. You should still make major without a problem. I tuned all my mags myself and use grams guts in them. I may have 1 malfunction every 2 or 3 thousand rounds. I can't back off .2, at 10.5 I am at 166.3 power factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 My personal opinion, an open guy is a crap shoot when you purchase used. I can be wrong I have not done it. I think I would go to one the above named builders and lean to Cameron's, his 6" has run flawless for me for the last 9mo. and counting and counting. You get my point.. It seems that you have tried to get the gun fixed locally. I would get on the phone with some builders we have suggested from this site, find the one you are comfortable with and shoot something else for a couple of months till you get you baby back. Keep us posted. Good shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) think Brazo, Bedell, Gans..........I have had great experiences with all...... used open are like used cars..............buy a name brand & increase your chances.... This, I purchased a used Bedell, the last time it had a malfunction (that wasn't a high primer) was in 2009. Changed out the aftec and it was back to 100%. Edited October 7, 2012 by Supermoto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I was kinda hoping I would be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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