StealthyBlagga Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) With the ready availability of 60- and 100-round box magazines, some might feel that the prohibition on drum rifle magazines in the Tactical divisions is a bit pointless. What do folks think about repealing the drum mag prohibition? Edited July 28, 2012 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I don't think they are forbidden in Tac except at a few matches. But I could be wrong. I see no magazine restriction rules for TAC in USPSA. Personally I think restricting it to 30 round mags or a magazine length like they do with the pistol may not be a bad thing. But on the other hand if it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephensOutdoors Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I voted no, mainly because you have to draw the line somewhere between an open rifle & a tac rifle. However, I'm not a fan of 30 round mag restrictions either. Having the ability to choose different mag lengths adds a little fun to stage planning & shooting. 100 round Surefire mags are cool so if one of my competitors wants to lug a mag filled with 100 rounds around a big rifle course when you only need 36 rounds, feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technetium-99m Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Honestly I'm not sure that there's enough of a distinction between an open rifle and a tac-ops rifle as it is, so no I don't think its a good idea to give them drums as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUshooter Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Does the line in the sand between rifles of equal caliber really matter? TO vs Open....I need a bullet list of what makes them different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Different between TAC optics and open comes down to bi pods in open (biggest advantage) and more than 1 optic allowed Which is also usefull at times. There are also rules on comp size like the JP tank brake is not allowed in TO. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Didn't realize there were any matches that didn't allow them, but then I haven't had my C-Mag out in years. No need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Perhaps the rule about keeping the same rifle or pistol throughout the match should be applied to magazines also...? There are some stages where a drum - or 45 or 60 or whatever is the ticket to ride... maybe a "real" advantage. I like what StephensOutdoors says. Want to tote that chunk around - do it the entire match. Might balance out the (real or perceived) advantage.. So....Start with a drum and keep it through all stages. Start with a 30 rounder and keep it through all stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I shoot the Heavy Metal divisions, so I am limited to 20 rounds only.Maybe Tactical needs a limit of some sort as well? But where? A Galil uses a 35 round magazine, most other rifles smaller than 7.62x51 use a 30 round magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technetium-99m Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I shoot the Heavy Metal divisions, so I am limited to 20 rounds only.Maybe Tactical needs a limit of some sort as well? But where? A Galil uses a 35 round magazine, most other rifles smaller than 7.62x51 use a 30 round magazine. At this point I'm not for changing the rules away from what works, the gear is already purchased and people are going to matches so no new limits or changes, just leave the Tac-Optics/Limited rifles as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Perhaps the rule about keeping the same rifle or pistol throughout the match should be applied to magazines also...? There are some stages where a drum - or 45 or 60 or whatever is the ticket to ride... maybe a "real" advantage. I like what StephensOutdoors says. Want to tote that chunk around - do it the entire match. Might balance out the (real or perceived) advantage.. So....Start with a drum and keep it through all stages. Start with a 30 rounder and keep it through all stages. What happens when you run out of ammo with the 30 since you have to use the same mag through the whole match. Hand load the mag with loose rounds? (Sarcasim) Edited July 28, 2012 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I know that Rocky Mountain 3 Gun limits Tactical division to a double-column magazine. This limits the Surefire 60 and 100 round mags to Open division at their match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorillaTactical Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Tac division should be limited to 30 round mags?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Tac division should be limited to 30 round mags?! Yep, If ya wanna shoot open gear, shoot open... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Tac division should be limited to 30 round mags?! Yep, If ya wanna shoot open gear, shoot open... jj The rules are what define open gear etc. Most matches don't limit magazine capacity with rifles and shotguns. So its not really open gear. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I want to change my answer. I vote no to drum magazines, but after further reflection, if you need 100 rds of rifle to finish a stage, you need 100 rds. I don't know why you need 100 rds....maybe your prefer to shoot from the hip rather than use a sighting system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I want to change my answer. I vote no to drum magazines, but after further reflection, if you need 100 rds of rifle to finish a stage, you need 100 rds. I don't know why you need 100 rds....maybe your prefer to shoot from the hip rather than use a sighting system. I shot a course of fire once where it required 86 rifle rounds. I had a stage at my last match that in theory only required 39 but some people stopped at 90. Not all stages or matches are the same. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Tac division should be limited to 30 round mags?! Yep, If ya wanna shoot open gear, shoot open... jj Way JJ said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romans 13 4 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I voted no.... I agree if you want to shoot open then shoot open. Or, you could change the rules to be like shotgun starts. You have to start with a 30 in the weapon, but after the buzzer goes off you can swap it or shoot it up and replace it with a 60, 100, 1000 what ever the flavor of the month is. My .02 cents (worth about .0000002 in current economic conditions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Sure, let them in to play. When the drum mags jam up and cost valuable time, I will be happy that I don't have one in my gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIC Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 There nothing more tactical than a drum. My vote is yes even thought I don't see myself using it unless the roller coaster stage is brought out again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 AHHHH...the oldest and most worn out "saw" in 3-gun. There is no distinction between and open rifle and a tactical rifle.......There MAY, and it would be a mighty SLIM MAY!!!! be a point IF we held rifle only matches....BUT WE DON'T!!!!! ALL the gear together defines OPEN, not just the rifle. So drum up. belt up, multi stack up to hearts content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFH Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) RM3G is the only match that limits magazines (and how they can be set up) in Tactical that I have been to. edited to add: the NW Multigun and SMM3G also do not allow drum magazines. I should have researched that first! As far as I have been able to determine, 100 round drum magazines were created to give an advantage in situations where the increased round count would be beneficial. And, since according to the patent issued in April of 1987, "This invention relates to magazines for guns. More specifically it relates to large capacity drum magazines which feed cartridges to an automatic gun", it is fairly safe to say that the magazine was created primarily for use by the military. When you look at the definition of tactical, "of or pertaining to a maneuver or plan of action designed as an expedient toward gaining a desired end or temporary advantage," it appears that tactical situations are exactly where such magazines should be used. Seems to me, that Tactical division is the home of such magazines. These magazines are NOT open gear. If every open shooter in the US were to switch to any one of the available 100 round magazines, I seriously doubt the manufacturer of that magazine would be able to recoup their R&D and manufacturing cost. The desire of some to create rules that attempt to guarantee the ability of Open shooters to shoot a rifle stage faster than a shooter in Tactical should not be the basis for limiting the historically available options in Tactical division. Some may want to argue that this is not the purpose behind wanting a restriction on Tactical magazines, but I have heard it stated repeated. If allowing multiple optics, bipods, and larger compensators is not enough of an advantage, perhaps the old option of more practice would be beneficial. As Kurt said, the pistol and shotgun in open division also define the division. If Tactical shooters are capable of completing pistol stages faster than Open shooters, is there going to be a call to go to 10 round pistol magazines in Tactical? If not, why not? If the reasons and logic are good enough for rifle rules, why will they not be good enough for pistol rules? "So drum up. belt up, multi stack up to hearts content." (Well phrased Kurt!) Andy Edited July 30, 2012 by AFH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Yep, If ya wanna shoot open gear, shoot open... Please tell me you are kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff F Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Let them lug the extra weight, and they are not the most reliable anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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