Why no DOH allowed in SS?!?!?

[DWFAN]

and offset makes it a race holster?

Granted I don't use the Dropped and offset at all. I find it makes the holster to "floppy". I get a much better draw with out.

+1, I feel like I need a 2 inch reinforced belt to hold the gun still. Plus between IDPA, SSTK and Prod.. switching all the time seemed silly to me.

[diehli]

DOH in production is silly as well. Production, SS, CDP and SSP should all use the same basic holster. Leave the race holsters for race guns.

Dropped and offset makes it a race holster?

Granted I don't use the Dropped and offset at all. I find it makes the holster to "floppy". I get a much better draw with out.

I thought the same thing until I replaced the top tension screw with a knobbed screw. Crank it down for between stages, loosen it up for standing starts, somewhere in between when the stage requires a bit of movement before drawing. Only notice the floppiness when I try to draw the gun when I've got the tension cranked down, otherwise, the gun just ends up in my hand (since my focus is on getting my weak hand to my belly and lining up on the first target).

[sperman]

Actually, my reading of D5.20 is that it only disallows the drop because of the frontstrap above the belt requirements. I think offset is still allows as long the 2" rule is satisfied. Am I misreading D5.20? Is the "suitable for everyday use" in D5.20 not the same as the Production D4.20?

Based on holsters I saw at the SSN this year, "Offset" is not a problem. There were Kydex holsters mounted with spacers to get the gun away from the body. I'm sure they were still within 2".

[sroe3]

I also put a knob on my DOH. It's definitely a huge improvement in retention.

[steel1212]

DOH in production is silly as well. Production, SS, CDP and SSP should all use the same basic holster. Leave the race holsters for race guns.

Dropped and offset makes it a race holster?

Granted I don't use the Dropped and offset at all. I find it makes the holster to "floppy". I get a much better draw with out.

I thought the same thing until I replaced the top tension screw with a knobbed screw. Crank it down for between stages, loosen it up for standing starts, somewhere in between when the stage requires a bit of movement before drawing. Only notice the floppiness when I try to draw the gun when I've got the tension cranked down, otherwise, the gun just ends up in my hand (since my focus is on getting my weak hand to my belly and lining up on the first target).

Ok let me run this past you then....how much faster or consistent are you with a holster that you have to adjust tension based on what your doing instead of setting a holster up and leaving it alone.

Edited July 3, 2012 by steel1212

[Gary Stevens]

Why can you not use a DOH in SS?!?!?

First of all Springfield Armory owns the Single Stack Classic. The Single Stack Classic has been kind enough to host the Single Stack Nationals for the past few years.

Now as to your question. I think if you search a bit you will find extensive discussion on how the division was created. When I designed the 1911 Single Stack Division it was to be something different from everything else. Sort of retro, sort of modern, and an avenue to draw more 1911 manufacturers into our sport. It was also designed to provide a fairly seemless crossover from IDPA into our sport. No more "you have to have a 3K race gun to shoot that sport".

There are more reasons, but they have been covered quiet a bit much earlier.

[zhunter]

When I saw Shannon Smith shooting Limited with a non-DOH Kydex holster, talked to him about it, and he told me he is just as fast and felt safer or something like that, well that was good enough for me.

I did the same thing while shooting Limited. In a 1 on 1 Class with Manny Bragg, I did a 0.77 "A" hit on a very narrow target at 10 yards. So it is not going to slow you down either. When I am practicing a bit, I feel I can make a 1.0 to 1.10 on an open 7 yard target on call IN A MATCH. So, my question is: What is it you are looking to improve with a DOH IF it was actually legal?

[Poppa Bear]

I would love to use a DOH for SS, only because it would place the gun in a more comfortable place for me to draw from. If I place my hand on the seam of my pants I feel some major strain in my shoulders by the time my fingers reach my belt line. I cannot get my finger tips more than 1/2" above my belt line. Place my hand in front of the seam and closer to my front pocket my hand can come way up an additional 8" easily. Place it behind the seam and I get an easy 4" to 5". So when I shoot SS I need to use a holster with a slight cant located behind my hip.

[diehli]

DOH in production is silly as well. Production, SS, CDP and SSP should all use the same basic holster. Leave the race holsters for race guns.

Dropped and offset makes it a race holster?

Granted I don't use the Dropped and offset at all. I find it makes the holster to "floppy". I get a much better draw with out.

I thought the same thing until I replaced the top tension screw with a knobbed screw. Crank it down for between stages, loosen it up for standing starts, somewhere in between when the stage requires a bit of movement before drawing. Only notice the floppiness when I try to draw the gun when I've got the tension cranked down, otherwise, the gun just ends up in my hand (since my focus is on getting my weak hand to my belly and lining up on the first target).

Ok let me run this past you then....how much faster or consistent are you with a holster that you have to adjust tension based on what your doing instead of setting a holster up and leaving it alone.

Faster or more consistent than what? Than a holster that flops but has a heavier tension? Than a non-DO?

A moderate difference in tension between draws on different stages makes little difference to me, particularly given that I can count turns. The DO makes a difference because of my extra fleshiness and shoulder injuries I've sustained. The non-floppiness makes a huge difference in speed and consistency.

YMMV, but dismissing adjustable tension as a means of dismissing the DOH as a viable holster is a non-starter.</drift>

[dskinsler83]

Thats my whole point a more comfortable positioning of the holster. Why are so many people so obtuse and touchy I mean really guys like I've said even if and I prob never will be be but if it was ever approved guess what!!!! IT'S YOUR CHOICE TO USE IT OR NOT!!!! America and USPSA guys! For now it's still a free country and your choice to change or not gees lol. I just wondered y the rules were what they were and just thought I'd like it.

[dskinsler83]

But in the same respect it is all in what you get used to and train and practice with

[steel1212]

DOH in production is silly as well. Production, SS, CDP and SSP should all use the same basic holster. Leave the race holsters for race guns.

Dropped and offset makes it a race holster?

Granted I don't use the Dropped and offset at all. I find it makes the holster to "floppy". I get a much better draw with out.

I thought the same thing until I replaced the top tension screw with a knobbed screw. Crank it down for between stages, loosen it up for standing starts, somewhere in between when the stage requires a bit of movement before drawing. Only notice the floppiness when I try to draw the gun when I've got the tension cranked down, otherwise, the gun just ends up in my hand (since my focus is on getting my weak hand to my belly and lining up on the first target).

Ok let me run this past you then....how much faster or consistent are you with a holster that you have to adjust tension based on what your doing instead of setting a holster up and leaving it alone.

Faster or more consistent than what? Than a holster that flops but has a heavier tension? Than a non-DO?

A moderate difference in tension between draws on different stages makes little difference to me, particularly given that I can count turns. The DO makes a difference because of my extra fleshiness and shoulder injuries I've sustained. The non-floppiness makes a huge difference in speed and consistency.

YMMV, but dismissing adjustable tension as a means of dismissing the DOH as a viable holster is a non-starter.</drift>

I'm dissmissing the drop and ofset part as even being needed at all to be fast. The adjustable tension, that you keep adjusting up and down, is affecting consistency for the simple fact its never the same twice. I'm not here to argue on what you like to use vs what I like to use. I just know my number say its not needed.

[wgnoyes]

Why can you not use a DOH in SS?!?!?

Because Richard Heine of the Single Stack Society said so!

[diehli]

I'm dissmissing the drop and ofset part as even being needed at all to be fast. The adjustable tension, that you keep adjusting up and down, is affecting consistency for the simple fact its never the same twice. I'm not here to argue on what you like to use vs what I like to use. I just know my number say its not needed.

Difference of opinion. No big deal.

I guarantee you, however, that with the way I'm built a non-DO would be quite uncomfortable and markedly slower.

And as far as the tension never being the same twice, that's false. And it doesn't affect my consistency, either. Perhaps when my skills have progressed to a higher level, it will, but that seems unlikely given that I've never had an issue switching between various platforms of firearm or equipment.

[Chris iliff]

I simply am not built to draw a gun that has a backstrap above the height of my belt. So,....... IMHO there is a need to revisit the rule. Geez, we ain't talking tie down rigs and bikini holsters here.

For what it's worth, everyone is different physically.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Chris iliff

[Poppa Bear]

I simply am not built to draw a gun that has a backstrap above the height of my belt. So,....... IMHO there is a need to revisit the rule. Geez, we ain't talking tie down rigs and bikini holsters here.

For what it's worth, everyone is different physically.

It is not the backstrap that needs to be above the belt. It is the front strap. If the wording was changed to backstrap above the belt line I would be happy.

[bbbean]

SS is all about tradition, and it works as is. If you really want a faster holster, we have lim 10. No need to fix what works great.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure we don't use DOH in SS for the same reasons we don't use 6" guns or appendix carry in SS. I don't see a problem.

BB

[dskinsler83]

No body in USPSA or IDPA uses appendix care lmao god guys y'all compare apples to raisins here not even apples to oranges

[Chuck Anderson]

I'm dissmissing the drop and ofset part as even being needed at all to be fast. The adjustable tension, that you keep adjusting up and down, is affecting consistency for the simple fact its never the same twice. I'm not here to argue on what you like to use vs what I like to use. I just know my number say its not needed.

Not to vary too far from the topic at hand. But you can dismiss it for you. However for some of us, it is definitely faster. For those of us that have a bit more of a gut hanging over the belt the ability to not have to lift up 20 pounds of beer belly to get the gun out of the holster makes at least the Offset part very important. The Drop part of that??? I always love definitive statements based on a sample size of one.

[Chris iliff]

I simply am not built to draw a gun that has a backstrap above the height of my belt. So,....... IMHO there is a need to revisit the rule. Geez, we ain't talking tie down rigs and bikini holsters here.

For what it's worth, everyone is different physically.

It is not the backstrap that needs to be above the belt. It is the front strap. If the wording was changed to backstrap above the belt line I would be happy.

Well there you go! It just ain't happening for me at that height. I don't bend that way without intense shoulder pain, go figure. I ain't handicapped, I don't suffer from anything, I'm fairly fit for 45. I just don't bend that way comfortably.

For me it has nothing to do with draw speed at all. I could care less about that, .2 or .3 over each stages with a draw in a match? I got more to worry about.

For me, backstrap at top of belt is my limit of comfort, much higher and it's gonna be painful. Just the way I'm built and I suspect I'm not alone.

[Gary Stevens]

Why can you not use a DOH in SS?!?!?

Because Richard Heine of the Single Stack Society said so!

That is not true Bill. I should know.

[Gary Stevens]

Thats my whole point a more comfortable positioning of the holster. Why are so many people so obtuse and touchy I mean really guys like I've said even if and I prob never will be be but if it was ever approved guess what!!!! IT'S YOUR CHOICE TO USE IT OR NOT!!!! America and USPSA guys! For now it's still a free country and your choice to change or not gees lol. I just wondered y the rules were what they were and just thought I'd like it.

You asked a question. I took the time to answer it and you don't even acknowledge it.

So be it.

[steel1212]

I'm dissmissing the drop and ofset part as even being needed at all to be fast. The adjustable tension, that you keep adjusting up and down, is affecting consistency for the simple fact its never the same twice. I'm not here to argue on what you like to use vs what I like to use. I just know my number say its not needed.

Difference of opinion. No big deal.

I guarantee you, however, that with the way I'm built a non-DO would be quite uncomfortable and markedly slower.

And as far as the tension never being the same twice, that's false. And it doesn't affect my consistency, either. Perhaps when my skills have progressed to a higher level, it will, but that seems unlikely given that I've never had an issue switching between various platforms of firearm or equipment.

Exactly we don't have to agree just have to agree to disagree lol

If you never touch the screw on the tension then yes your tension will always be the same. If you adjust it per stage requirements then no your constantly changing it and its not consistent.

[dskinsler83]

Thats my whole point a more comfortable positioning of the holster. Why are so many people so obtuse and touchy I mean really guys like I've said even if and I prob never will be be but if it was ever approved guess what!!!! IT'S YOUR CHOICE TO USE IT OR NOT!!!! America and USPSA guys! For now it's still a free country and your choice to change or not gees lol. I just wondered y the rules were what they were and just thought I'd like it.

You asked a question. I took the time to answer it and you don't even acknowledge it.

So be it.

My apologoes sir I do thank you for the explination it's greatly appreciated I didn't mean to over look your reply and I didn't. I just think it'd be nice to have the choice instead if the ass whole type responses of if you don't like it shoot l10 I know what the books say I was just curious as to why and now I I know thank you again

[steel1212]

I'm dissmissing the drop and ofset part as even being needed at all to be fast. The adjustable tension, that you keep adjusting up and down, is affecting consistency for the simple fact its never the same twice. I'm not here to argue on what you like to use vs what I like to use. I just know my number say its not needed.

Not to vary too far from the topic at hand. But you can dismiss it for you. However for some of us, it is definitely faster. For those of us that have a bit more of a gut hanging over the belt the ability to not have to lift up 20 pounds of beer belly to get the gun out of the holster makes at least the Offset part very important. The Drop part of that??? I always love definitive statements based on a sample size of one.

That is why I said my numbers. Its also the same for Shannon Smith obvisously, as a well as a lot of Ms and GMs that I shoot with locally. I'm not dismissing the fact that it works for some with a more full figured.....figure I am saying that those of us not in that same "shape" can be just as fast with out one.