Hell froze over.

[Flexmoney]

I was serving as Range Master for our local match.

We had an issue where, at the end of a stage, there were targets that might need to shot from a low position (under a wall).

This came up a few hours into the match. Modifying and re-shooting wasn't an option. The stage would have had to have been tossed, without the FA. No other squads/shooters were impacted by the change. The current shooter had to reshoot the cof, after the change.

You can see the setup at the very end of Micah's match video. <clickity>

The issue was that, if a shooter went low for the two targets under the wall...they then might just muzzle up and shoot a target that was open in the window. (The window target could be taken at other times.)

Shooting the window target while low put the bullet hits at/near/above the top of the berm.

Micah does great and takes the offending target early, at the 1:47 time hack in the video. He later goes low for the two target behind the wall that need to be taken while low. If he would have shot the window target from this low position, we would have had berm/safety issues. (Micah, I hope you don't mind me using your video to show the stage?)

So, in the name of true safety, we set aside "freestyle" a bit. Per:

2.3.1.1 In lieu of modifying course design or physical construction, a

Range Master may explicitly forbid certain competitor actions in

order to maintain competitive equity.

a. Declaration of a Forbidden Action may be made to prohibit

competitor movement

which is likely to result in an unsafe

condition

or to prohibit exploit of an unintended course loophole in order to circumvent a course requirement and/or gain

unfair competitive advantage.

Thoughts?

Granted, stage design should take 2.1.4 into mind:

2.1.4 Target Locations – When a course is constructed to include target locations other than immediately downrange, organizers and officials must

protect or restrict surrounding areas to which competitors, officials or

spectators have access. Each competitor must be allowed to solve the

competitive problem in his own way and must not be hindered by being

forced to act in any manner which might cause unsafe action. Targets

must be arranged so that shooting at them on an “as and when visible”

basis will not cause competitors to breach safe angles of fire.

[lugnut]

Are you saying you saw some shooters opting to take the window target from the low position and then forbade it for the rest of the shooters?? If so I 100% agree with not allowing that shot from the low position. Now whether or not you should throw out that stage is another issue.

[diehli]

Thoughts?

I think you (re-)learned something to look out for & made the right call on the FA, even if it's not how you would have liked it to have worked out. Appropriate use of 2.3.1.1.

[Jim Norman]

I don't see where any shooters actually shot the target in question, it was simply pointed out that one might do so and once pointed out the FA was declared. Level 1 No problem. At a L2 or L3 the stages should be set up in advance and 'bullet proofed' prior to the match. If a problem such as this occurs during he staff shoot, you can change it and reshoot, to toss a stage is never an easy choice and should always be the last resort.

Sounds to me like the correct decisions with regards to safety and to the match were made.

[Flexmoney]

Are you saying you saw some shooters opting to take the window target from the low position and then forbade it for the rest of the shooters?? If so I 100% agree with not allowing that shot from the low position.

Yes. I should have clarified. The FA that was written into the WSB, to not allow taking that window target from a crouched (or lower) shooting position/stance.

Jim, one shooter did, in fact, take that target from the low position. When our RO's saw that, they noticed the bullet impact was too high on the berm to continue to allow that at the range. Then the FA was written, and that particular shooter was required to reshoot the cof.

[Paul Santiago]

You did the right thing. It was the right call.

[chaosshooter00]

Looks like you made the right call. I think it takes a little courage to put something like this up for open criticism. Good for you.

[Jim Norman]

Missed that or just read it wrong. Still the right call was made. We must keep safety of ourselves, our fellow shooters AND our neighbors in mind at all times or we will not have to worry about it as we won't be doing what it is that we love to do, that is, Shoot.

[Ron Ankeny]

Stuff happens. That's why we have ROs and MDs. Good call on your part.

[wide45]

I would have been inclined to modify the stage with a vision barrier to block seeing the particular target from the low port, provided it could be done without affecting any other targets or views.

2.3.3.1 would still apply.

I would consider the FA only if there was no other way to keep the stage.

I don't see a rules problem with what you did.

Edited May 18, 2012 by wide45

[SteveU]

FA is a very misunderstood/misquoted/misapplied.

This is a great example of using it correctly: to remedy a safety concern and save the stage.

To me this is exactly what FA is included for

Edited May 18, 2012 by Steve Umansky

[EkuJustice]

I think that is the correct way to use the FA. Im not a big fan of it being used to require a stage be shot a certain way or to prevent any kind of gaming at all.

[Jim Norman]

If a vision barrier could have been erected, then that would be preferable, in its absence the FA works.

[aztecdriver]

Exactly. We have done this in situations in indoor matches where nothing else we could come up with would allow us to take away a shot that was questionably into a side wall. We do are darndest to keep the setup without having to do so, it's just not feasible in every instance - as well as considering we accomplish setup of two stages in less than an hour.

Good call, I would say.

[bikerburgess]

My $.02 is this was the perfect use of the FA rule, fixing a safety issue, and saving a stage without needing to re-shoot everyone.

I Have seen it misused at a couple of local, level 1 matches where using the stage description and the level 1 exemption would have done the same thing, without the threat of a DQ for Gaming a stage.

Mike

[lawboy]

Heck yeah you did the right thing!

[jar]

Sounds like the correct call to me. I agree with adding a vision barrier if you catch it before the match starts, but I actually prefer the forbidden action once the match is started. Otherwise, earlier competitors had the opportunity to see a miss on the target in question and make it up, which later competitors don't.

[jualdeaux]

I was at the match where this happened. Here is my third person

. I engaged the target in question at about the 40 second mark.

Also, we were the first group to shoot that stage. When we were partly done with the next stage, Kyle came over and asked if anyone on our squad shot the target from the low position, and if so they would need to re-shoot the stage as he added that FA. Nobody did. It was done fairly and I could definitely understand why the decision.

[sperman]

Just curious. How would you have handled it if you had a young/short shooter who's ony option was to shoot that target at an angle that could cause the round to exit the bay?

[leas327]

The scoring part of the target was around the five foot mark. With the way the fault line was laid out there was no real way a short shooter could run up underneath the target to engage it without penalty.

There was a junior shooter there who was probably 11. He is not a big kid either. He did not have a problem with the angle. If anything he just shot it and only had to hunch down a little to get the two low targets.

A lot of the stages at Circleville are set up to be very freestyle friendly. Its is hard to try and debug every single possible way to shoot many of the stages. Kyle made the right call to save the stage.

There were a lot of shooters at that match and it ran late. Could you imagine how crappy it would have been to throw that stage and have two squads of 12 backed up on every other stage. It would turn a monthly 5 stage match into a two day event.

[Skydiver]

Additionally if the specific engagement angle was not barred by a Forbidden Action, the rule 10.4.1 allows for shots going over the berm:

10.4.1 A shot, which travels over a backstop, a berm or in any other direction, specified in the written stage briefing by the match organizers as being unsafe. Note that a competitor who legitimately fires a shot at a target, which then travels in an unsafe direction, will not be disqualified (the provisions of Section 2.3 may apply).

This makes it imperative that MD/RMs be as thorough as possible during setup to prevent bullets from leaving the range, if bullets over the berm are concern for the host range.

[jdphotoguy]

I could see were thinking someone would shoot the window target from under that wall was missed as the target appears to be very close to the window. Good call on the FA after a knucklehead shooter tried shooting under the wall at it.

[MarkCO]

Well done Kyle. Would have done the same thing.