renzo808 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Being an RO, would you allow this shooter to start with this type of surrender? Looks like his right wrist is below his shoulder.. BTW, he has a super fast draw!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Is it supposed to be "surrender" or hands above shoulders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Hands are above shoulders...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renzo808 Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 I'm not really too sure. Non the less, it's a really bizarre but effective "stance" for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 There is another thread floating around about the "surrender position". It is not defined in the rule book as requiring hands to be above shoulders or anywhere else for that matter. Looks perfectly legal to me as long as Steel rules are similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jriera Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Darn he has a fast draw!!! he even moves the hips up at the 'stand by' command! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csiedmond1 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Thats fast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebp45 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 This is from the SCSA rulebook. "5.2.2 In center fire competition, hands are to be held in the “surrender position” with wrists and hands above the shoulders and fully visible from behind." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) This is from the SCSA rulebook. "5.2.2 In center fire competition, hands are to be held in the "surrender position" with wrists and hands above the shoulders and fully visible from behind." Does it matter where the RO is standing behind the shooter and how tall the RO is in relation to the shooter? Edited April 9, 2012 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 My fingertips are touching the top of my headset cups at the beep. Then again, I'm not considered to be a gamer. That being said, if I was the RO I'd like to see his hands a bit higher to see the wrists. Highly subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) Being an RO, would you allow this shooter to start with this type of surrender? If, when standing behind him, I can see both hands and wrists, I'd say OK. But I'm wondering if his left hand is even visible. It looks like it could be block by his head if I'm standing directly behind him. And his wrists do not seem to be above his shoulders either. Edited April 9, 2012 by warpspeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Looks legal to me, though he could be a smidge higher to comply with the "wrists" above shoulder part of the rule. Watch my hero Jerry M with his gopher hands, and he pushes that line also but I don't think anybody ever corrects him about his wrist height! I'm not quite sure what this guy is doing with the holster right before each draw... but it makes me feel kinda icky... Having said all that, I have to give the guy props since he obviously has studied his draw and knows what works for him. If you've ever had the honor to watch Mike Dalton shoot the challenge (he does it in CDP) he gets his hands way up higher than anybody else I've seen but he generally can kick the butt of anybody else who brings a 1911 to a match. It's all about knowing what works for you, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 The dude came in 7th and a little behind Sevigny. Pretty dang impressive. Anyone else notice the mild pelvic thrust at the last minute bringing the holster up just a tad before the beep? 6. Dave Sevigny OPEN 86.75 7. Shiro Shimada OPEN 87.47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Yup, there's a funny FB thread about the gun and hip action... I'd put in a link, but it is to a private shooting group and doesn't really contribute to the rules discussion. Anyway, back on topic, if this were USPSA, is that hip thrust considered creeping since it is a movement to a more advantageous shooting posture? (10.2.6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Of the six who placed before him, how many used this position? Like many things to each his own, but I think, while legal, this start position is probably his, and his alone. I was always under the impression that a legal position to start was "hands above respective shoulders." That would mean right above right, left above left. Above though, doesn't really mean over. So then you get this. Strange indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I'm still diggin that pelvic thrust. He is my hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renzo808 Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 The "jerking" of the pistol in the holster before the draw must be a new technique also! :roflol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 He had a .58 first shot on Smoke and Hope but missed. He had two .62's with hits!! Amazing hand speed. We had a super squad picture after the match with all of us holding our hands up all goofy like he does, I'm sure it will turn up at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Jethro's draw was faster-believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGunut Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Shiro is friends with Muneki and only shot airsoft up until about 5 weeks ago. By the way I have seen a .48 on a paper Target in a match at Rio here. He is crazy fast in surrender, but hands at sides is akward at best. He mostly shoots airsoft steel challenge in Japan and rules the game there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming the Merciless Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I'm not quite sure what this guy is doing with the holster right before each draw... but it makes me feel kinda icky... I think he exhales slightly just before the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 If he didn't shoot with bent arms he could shoot faster and more accurately. His mega bent arms grip is killing his ability to manage the recoil. I am sure this is a product of shooting a bunch of airsoft where recoil isn't a factor and you can pretty much shoot effectively using any amount of bent arms. His draws are wicked fast though. In steel challenge a wicked fast draw becomes a significant time advantage over 8 stages. As for his wrists being above his shoulders, it looks good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Springer Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 The "jerking" of the pistol in the holster before the draw must be a new technique also! :roflol: Legal? Probably. I'd have to hand the timer off to someone else though. He'd make me a nervous wreck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 If he didn't shoot with bent arms he could shoot faster and more accurately. His mega bent arms grip is killing his ability to manage the recoil. I am sure this is a product of shooting a bunch of airsoft where recoil isn't a factor and you can pretty much shoot effectively using any amount of bent arms. I think there's another Japanese Steel Challenge shooter I've seen with this same stance (unless it's the same guy with different facial hair) who shoots almost nothing but airsoft in Japan except for when he comes to the States to shoot SC here. I always assumed it's an airsoft affectation. I'd be curious to see what these guys would look like shooting a production gun with no compensator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 There are some lessons to be learned from this guy and it has nothing to do with his technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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