Pro-Pain Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Just so the moderators don't have to jump on here and say it, everyone play nice! from history: "The biggest weapon in Top Shot history--a mighty 3.2 inch bag gun cannon--forces each team to work together as a unit. At the elimination challenge, a heated grudge match pits two shooters against each other using the fast-flying prehistoric atlatl throwing dart." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 from history: "The biggest weapon in Top Shot history--a mighty 3.2 inch bag gun cannon--forces each team to work together as a unit. ... And now you all know why I went into Artillery when I joined the Army Reserve. The BOOM! you feel & hear when you pull that cannon cord for the 1st time is unbelievable. You have to experience it for yourself, to know what I'm talking about!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro-Pain Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 ok, is it "Attle-Attle" or "Att-Lattle"?! or is the pronunciation interchangeable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 from history: "The biggest weapon in Top Shot history--a mighty 3.2 inch bag gun cannon--forces each team to work together as a unit. ... And now you all know why I went into Artillery when I joined the Army Reserve. The BOOM! you feel & hear when you pull that cannon cord for the 1st time is unbelievable. You have to experience it for yourself, to know what I'm talking about!!! Shock waves in the dirt were pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) What is the traditional round that is fired out of a bag gun made out of? Lead, Iron, jacketed lead? Was aluminum common? Edited March 21, 2012 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) What is the traditional round that is fired out of a bag gun made out of? Lead, Iron, jacketed lead? Was aluminum common? While I can't speak for the rounds fired out of the bag gun, the rounds we shot out of the 155mm Howitzer were 200 lbs. of steel & TNT. For those who do not know, 1 lb. = 7,000 gr. So 200 lbs. = 1,400,000 gr. BOOM BABY! Edited March 21, 2012 by Chris Keen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm waiting for them to use those water balloon sling shot thingies- The ones ya launch kittens in. The show is going down hill fast. The desk job cop is getting way too much air time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeg1005 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Pardon my ignorance...but wtf were they doing with their whole aiming plan. I have never shot a cannon, nor do I know the first thing about them... but logically... Would you have the first guy go up... put the optic on, aim dead center, shoot... and adjust fire from that shot? Is it really that simple and they overcomplicated it? Or am I missing something? Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9X23Guy Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Chee, wtf. There's no crying in Top Shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torogi Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Did i just see Bob Vogel on the next episode for the trick shots??! That indexing is undeniably a vogel stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm glad they sent Tim instead of Chee. Losing either Chris or Chee would have been bad for the Red team. I think Tim was pretty skilled also, but since he had it in for one of his team members it was good to see him go. I would like to see the unedited footage of the discussion before the nomination range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I suspect the "aiming thing" had to do with recoil changing carriage position on every shot. Bore sighting got it close enough to point of aim to use the sights. This from an Airdale sailor so I'm guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm glad they sent Tim instead of Chee. Losing either Chris or Chee would have been bad for the Red team. I think Tim was pretty skilled also, but since he had it in for one of his team members it was good to see him go. I would like to see the unedited footage of the discussion before the nomination range. Anybody know what set of the disagreement between the two. I watched but could not catch it. I guess I am not as sensitve. (I have often been told that while I am scoring with my friends. ) Thanks rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I suspect the "aiming thing" had to do with recoil changing carriage position on every shot. Bore sighting got it close enough to point of aim to use the sights. This from an Airdale sailor so I'm guessing. No you're exactly right. The carriage had a crude spade to help keep it from rolling backwards during recoil, but it would still rock sideways some. So it HAD to be re-aligned every time it was shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I was certain that Tim was going home by the way they showed him being so confident before the elimination challenge. I think that Chee was soo mad that it brought tears, but I was surprised that he was that upset over not being nominated. I believe that it would have been bad for Chee and Chris to have both gone to elimination. They seem to both be solid marksmen and generally better suited to Top Shot competition than Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) I was hating on Alan Alda (Kyle) for most of the show, but after this show and how he solved the Tim problem I am a fan of his. Tim was just way too sensitive, at least what was presented in the team meeting wasn't worth fussing over. I have been asking for an atl-atl since season 1 so I was happy to see it. What an interesting and subtle technique. Unfortunately with the alternating shots there wasn't much tension in the elimination challenge. I think a head-to-head challenge against balloons or something would have been more dynamic, and gotten even more stress out of the participants (which guy that would help is unclear, both had yips at different times). The team challenge was a cool gun, neat to see a bridge between blackpowder frontstuffers and smokeless breechloaders. Great camera work to see the rifling on the projectile. Unfortunately again by going alternately any tension was solely a result of editing. The show was described as a test of teamwork but with no time pressure who cared how the team worked? At least give them a 2-minute limit or something to clean, aim, load and fire each shot. I would have preferred a 10 or so minute time for each team to shoot as much as they could, best shot on one or most hits on a variety of targets wins. Heck, make that a point-based challenge out to 2000 yards or so, to really show off the cannon. I know this is against my usual request for head-to-head competition, but that would let them dial it in, and really show the team differences in organization reflected in loading speed. I have to assume safety concerns were the reason for much of the slow pace. That doesn't bode well for my idea of each team running a real blackpowder naval cannon for time and accuracy (hey, they already have the ships built for the pirate-theme challenge last episode). Edited March 21, 2012 by SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I know this is against my usual request for head-to-head competition, but that would let them dial it in, and really show the team differences in organization reflected in loading speed. I have to assume safety concerns were the reason for much of the slow pace. That doesn't bode well for my idea of each team running a real blackpowder naval cannon for time and accuracy (hey, they already have the ships built for the pirate-theme challenge last episode). He! He! He! I had a similar idea. A game of "battleship", where there are dummy ships out on the range that belong to each team. The ships can be controlled remotely. The team has to choose between have "all hands on deck" to help with the cannon, or they can can dedicate a team member or two to control the dummy ships and provide moving targets, or some variation in between where somebody runs off to go move a ship a little bit and then run back to help. I think the ultimate strategy would be to tuck your friendly ships behind the opposing teams ships. If the team wanted to fire on your ships, they would have to risk hitting their own. Of course a well coordinated team could also tack their friendly ship out of harms way at the last moment before firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm waiting for them to use those water balloon sling shot thingies- The ones ya launch kittens in. I'd like to see a trebuchet! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iy7y8KgkwY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I can't say this was an overly exciting episode, but the atlatl was kind of cool. What really hurt was the way the competitions were done. I can see why they alternated with the cannon shots - there was only one cannon. But awarding the win to the closest to the center was kind of dumb if you ask me. This is not a precision weapon so it would have been a lot more interesting if they had used some kind of normal scoring with each ring being worth 2 points more than the last - the team with the most points wins. And maybe put a time limit on each shot, maybe put a decreasing time limit on each shot. As to alternating with the atlatl, did they just have one of those too? Head to head would have been much more interesting. Scoring ends when one person has made all 10 shots (or something like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Mad Matt Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 What is the traditional round that is fired out of a bag gun made out of? Lead, Iron, jacketed lead? Was aluminum common? I find it odd how they mention that the two teams will be shooting aluminum shells without mentioning what the gun originally fired -- which certainly wasn't aluminum. I'm guessing it was still cast iron with blackpowder. Pardon my ignorance...but wtf were they doing with their whole aiming plan. I have never shot a cannon, nor do I know the first thing about them... but logically... Would you have the first guy go up... put the optic on, aim dead center, shoot... and adjust fire from that shot? Is it really that simple and they overcomplicated it? Or am I missing something? In the late 1800s, the French, with their famous 75s, were the only nation with modern artillery that absorbed the recoil using hydraulics. I was hating on Alan Alda (Kyle) for most of the show, but after this show and how he solved the Tim problem I am a fan of his. Tim was just way too sensitive, at least what was presented in the team meeting wasn't worth fussing over. It did seem like a classic clash of the IT guy or engineer wanting to run down the list of known facts and the manly hunter growlin', "them's fightin' words!" I'm just surprised no one called out Tim to man up, and it took Kyle's shot to set things in motion the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The first question that came to mind for me when I saw that they were firing aluminum projectiles was did thet recover them afterwards? That number of 4pound projectiles might have been worth it. At the least they would have made nice momentos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Me, I don't know artillery, but mebbe a light aluminum shell with a light powder charge might be easier on an old piece (they did say it was an original, didn't they? [only caught part of the broadcast])- less risk of catastrophic failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Me, I don't know artillery, but mebbe a light aluminum shell with a light powder charge might be easier on an old piece (they did say it was an original, didn't they? [only caught part of the broadcast])- less risk of catastrophic failure? Maybe they preferred the "snap" of a lighter projectile over the "push" of a heavier one. Many shooters do, you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E K Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Did i just see Bob Vogel on the next episode for the trick shots??! That indexing is undeniably a vogel stance. He is the expert i was referring to earlier. I just didn't know when he would be on. I will definitely check in next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griz Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I find it odd how they mention that the two teams will be shooting aluminum shells without mentioning what the gun originally fired If you're interested in history, you're on the wrong channel.... er... wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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