Apex Competition or Duty

[tecumseh]

I still want to ccw my M&P. Is the competition kit to light for carry? Is there a big difference in the competition and the duty? If I have to go the duty route is it alot better than the stock trigger?

Edited March 2, 2012 by tecumseh

[CHA-LEE]

Tecumseh> The Competition kit will produce smoother trigger pull action and a lighter trigger pull (2.5 - 2.75lbs). The Duty kit will smooth out the trigger pull action but keep the pull weight close to stock (5 - 6lbs). The decision on which direction you go comes down to your preferences and ability to keep your booger picker off the boom lever.

[jeremy kemlo]

Randy from apex recommends the competition kit for competition only. I can just see some lawyer bringing that fact up if, unfortunately, you have to shoot someone in self defense. I would rather have the competition trigger in a carry gun because that is the trigger I am used to. But with the way laws and lawyers are today, I would never do it. Better to be safe than sorry.

[ranger]

I will share with you that I have a competition kit in my M&P Pro 9 and it has fired everything I fed it including a large amount of Russian metal cased 9mm with very hard primers. My Glock target triggers will not fire the hard primer Russian 9mm but the APEX competition has not failed to fire anything.

[nathandewalt]

Yea Caek in a carry gun would be party time for a crooked civil attorney. Plus, under stress that trigger pull is most likely not gonna make a difference. Most shootings happen well under ten yards. IMHO i would rather have a heavier carry trigger then increase the chances of accidentally shooting a suspect who didn't quite need shooting.

I know there is a lot of people that will say if you don't put your finger on the trigger and it's not an issue... I absolutely agree but people make mistakes and better to err on the side of caution. If you need the gun to go off that three pounds won't make a difference.

Just my opinion

Nathan

[dkindig]

The duty kit will put you close to a stock trigger pull with a much smoother, crisper trigger. If you want to go with a lighter trigger pull but not quite as light as the competition spring kit you can leave the stock trigger return spring in and it will be down around 4-5 pounds. The Apex trigger return spring is actually stronger than the stock spring in order to keep everything around stock specifications.

I have the DCAEK installed on my 9L and purchased a competition spring set just in case. This actually gives me three different levels of trigger pull depending on how I swap the springs around.

Edited March 9, 2012 by dkindig

[MGMorden]

Personally - I wouldn't trust the Competition AEK for carry. If you just have to carry the same gun you compete with, then I'd say put in the Duty kit and just make do with the heavier trigger in competition.

[jdphotoguy]

If you ever had to use your gun for self defense and it had a competition trigger, you can bet the person(s) that you shot or their relative would sue you and the their lawyer would be all over the fact you had a competition trigger in your carry gun.

[BillGarlandJr]

I shot the dooky out of my M&P40 with an APEX Duty Trigger kit in it today. Some really good shooting can be done with the duty trigger. I'd say get it, get yourself some practice time with it, and be covered on both the reliability side of things, and the legal side of things....as far as having a trigger intended for carry purposes goes. Shoot someone in self defense and it really won't matter what trigger you have in your pistol...you'll likely get sued regardless. But at least they won't have the argument that you shot them accidentally, or even worse, that you carry a pistol with a really light trigger because you were looking to shoot someone.

A lot of the guys I work with have the APEX Duty kit in their M&P 45s and shoot them very, very well...FYI

[Shocker]

If I have to go the duty route is it alot better than the stock trigger?

Yes.

I compete with the duty kit and I don't feel like I need the trigger any lighter.

[TR55]

I installed the APEX Comp Kit, Hardened Sear and Ram in a 9mm Pro. It has a 2.5lb trigger. I would not due this for duty or ccw. For duty or ccw the most I would do is use the duty kit with RAM and Hardened Sear. The only thing I have done to my Duty M&P 40 is added a RAM. With the RAM, if the trigger spring breaks you can push the trigger forward after each shot and it will still fire. It also helps a little with the reset.

Edited March 25, 2012 by TR55

[CPW1265]

for carry use the Duty/Carry AEK. I have the Competition AEK in my 9L and it registers on the Lyman trigger pull gauge at 1.8-2lbs. I would NOT use this for CCW. I have the Duty/Carry AEK in my Full Size 45 and it feels great. I just you get the Duty/Carry AEK so in case you have to use your gun you will have something after the court proceedings.

[FightFireJay]

My Shield 40 shoots pretty good with just a Pro sear... But I will add a USB and then call it good.

I think if you get the full carry kit and the RAM you will be able to tune the trigger quite a bit. The hard parts will reduce the trigger pull (and make it smoother/crisper) and the springs you get will increase it.... So you can keep stock spri gs and still have a VERY decent trigger, or of you are worried about lawyers and ADs, you can put the stronger springs in.

Just to open a whole new can of worms I'll tell you (because I feel like trolling) I have a competition trigger kit in my home defense gun. I would never CCW with it. As my home defense gun, I think it would be pretty hard for even a civil lawyer to beat me up on it.

[nick romero]

I just installed a caek kit in my pro and i agree with everyone else i wouldn't recomened for carry

[Matt1911]

For carry, I would leave it bone stock just for the lawyer aspect of it.

The last thing I want after defending myself is some attorney trying to put me in jail or letting the perp off (in case he lived) because of the trigger mods I had in my gun.

That's my opinion of it, take it for what it is.

[mcracco]

Frankly, I think the Duty kit is almost too light for duty carry. I can certainly side with the guys saying the Duty kit isn't much of a handicap in a match.

[Quack]

if you want to lighten up the DCAEK, just keep the stock trigger return spring instead of installing the DCAEK.

[Eli23]

If I were to install the hard sear, USB, and ram and not change out the trigger or sear Spring what sort of trigger pull weight should I expect?

[hoghunter]

For carry, I would leave it bone stock just for the lawyer aspect of it.

The last thing I want after defending myself is some attorney trying to put me in jail or letting the perp off (in case he lived) because of the trigger mods I had in my gun.

That's my opinion of it, take it for what it is.

I hear this argument all the time and all through this thread. Has there been case law to support all of this fear about trigger mods and self defense? Everyone restates this like it's fact or is it just fear perpetuating itself? Has anyone ever been prosecuted or been successfully held responsible legally due to a trigger mod alone? Not saying it hasn't happened but it seems like its just one of those things people say. I am not referring to someone who accidentally discharged their weapon with a mod trigger, but specifically someone in a life or death self defense situation who shot the perpetrator and got into legitimate trouble due to solely a mod trigger.

[bthoefer]

I compete with mostly a Caek, but have competed with the Daek and have the Duty kit in my carry gun. The duty kit will Smith out the trigger and the break is more consistent. With roughly 12000 rounds through it the Duty kit breaks right at 4.5 lbs in my full size 9.

My pro that I use for competition has the Competition kit in it except I'm using the stock trigger return spring (I preferred the stronger trigger return / reset) and the stock striker spring. The trigger is just over 3 lbs with this setup.

[konkapot]

Nice catch Hoghunter!

There is no case law on this. This stuff just gets repeated....and repeated...and repeated...................

Tenn v. Garner and Graham v. Conner are still the guiding element is UODF cases.

[mfine]

The potential issue with a light trigger is an accidental shooting, or a lawyer arguing what you claim was self defense was really a negligent discharge due to your hair trigger. There have been cases of this happening to police officers.

[partyboy424]

Nice catch Hoghunter!

There is no case law on this. This stuff just gets repeated....and repeated...and repeated...................

Tenn v. Garner and Graham v. Conner are still the guiding element is UODF cases.

Criminal cases by themselves don't make "case law" neither do plea deals. My close friend pepper sprayed a robber breaking into his house, the robber claimed he tried to leave and that the pepper spray was excessive. The police testified that since he used a "large" can of pepper spray "much larger than what the police carry" that he was basically waiting for a chance to use it and used excessive force. Thankfully, the Judge could see that the Officers were idiots and that the robber after his testimony was damn near retarded. But in the end, the public servants that everyone assumes are sent to protect them went to bat for the criminal and tried to crucify a homeowner defending himself against a robber with a non lethal weapon. Imagine if it had been a shooting with a 2 pound trigger...

DA's go for easy wins and the Police do whatever the DA wants and CANNOT testify in your favor. If the manufacturer says a spring is competition only, Don't carry it. If the difference between you shooting a bad guy and an innocent victim is 4 pounds of trigger pull, you shouldn't be taking that shot anyways.