Chris Keen Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Our local MD ran your stripe at our Level-I match...except he had more than one stripe. Yes he did, and if you guys think that 1 stripe was EVIL ..... you should see it with 3 or 4 stripes spaced about 1" apart (think masking tape width) run vertically down the middle. THAT was evil! We were all debating whether or not to take our time, and try to get 2 really accurate, clean hits or just take 3-4 really FAST shots and save the extra time watching the sights. Considering these targets were really close (5-10 yrds.) I chose to take 4 really quick shots on each target and just keep moving. There's a video of that around here somewhere. I'll see if I can find it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avezorak Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I really like it and just might use it on a stage this month! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Lee wait till you see my video ..... and you'll agree it was definitely EVIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) The stage in question starts around 1:00 in the link below. Edited February 13, 2012 by Chris Keen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Yes he did, and if you guys think that 1 stripe was EVIL ..... you should see it with 3 or 4 stripes spaced about 1" apart (think masking tape width) run vertically down the middle. THAT was evil! I can already hear the complaints from our club's shooters . Time to start designing stages for the March match! BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The real lesson the "experienced" shooters gave you was. How to deal with complainants real and imagined. Was it constructive guidance ? or complaints. A match host is known for .... elaborate stages. last year he asked for my opinion and said that he really wanted to hear it. My constructive criticism was that "He try-ed too hard" "Did Too much to make the shoot better" when providing less would have made for fewer problems for the event and the shooters. His fault was trying Too Hard. We all would hate to have him get burned out trying to do too much. I told him how much we look forward to his event Even if you had 20 years of stage design, you would get some criticism, you don't have to stand any ground or site the rule book. Sounds like your targets are standing behind sign post and using a metal hard cover for that distance would be unsafe. ? Is that what the stripe represents ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'd just aim dead on at the stripe, that way I would be guaranteed to miss it. DR once put a 1.5 inch steel bar dead center but about 5 yards in front of a target about 15 yards out. The only way to engage target was straight on, amazing the number of people that dead center hit that pole, but wouldnt have been able to do it on purpose if you paid them, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee King Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Lee wait till you see my video ..... and you'll agree it was definitely EVIL. I like it! mwuahahaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I ran the all blacked out but the a-zone target at a Level-III match. Actually, the whole stage was 15 or so of those targets. Our local MD ran your stripe at our Level-I match...except he had more than one stripe. Oh yeah...I rememember that one. 3 on each was a common technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Our local MD ran your stripe at our Level-I match...except he had more than one stripe. Yes he did, and if you guys think that 1 stripe was EVIL ..... you should see it with 3 or 4 stripes spaced about 1" apart (think masking tape width) run vertically down the middle. THAT was evil! We were all debating whether or not to take our time, and try to get 2 really accurate, clean hits or just take 3-4 really FAST shots and save the extra time watching the sights. Considering these targets were really close (5-10 yrds.) I chose to take 4 really quick shots on each target and just keep moving. There's a video of that around here somewhere. I'll see if I can find it I needed 4...as 3 was not enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Michaels likes to cut the entire D section of targets off and leaves the 1/4" border on the C zone part of the metric target when he wants to be cute.. usually he puts these infernal things on swingers.. Sometimes I'll design a stage where the target requires a different # of rounds per target.. like 3 or 1.. it's comstock, but it throws people off.. Edited February 13, 2012 by sargenv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krdshrk Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Ooh I like it. Gives you a good aim point I like the hard cover stripes idea too - it's like they're behind a fence...... A fence with lasers..... haha Edited February 13, 2012 by krdshrk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 I ran the all blacked out but the a-zone target at a Level-III match. Actually, the whole stage was 15 or so of those targets. Our local MD ran your stripe at our Level-I match...except he had more than one stripe. You just gave me an evil idea. One stripe down the center of the a zone. 1 stripe in the C zone on each side along the A perf. On the all blacked out targets, my stage ORIGINALLY was going to be just all, all the metrics were going to be A zone only. But again, the groaning and moaning and arm twisting forced me to change it up. Then they were not happy with the stripe ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyRock Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Thanks for the ideas. We've got a local match Thursday, and I haven't done the stages yet. Hmmmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Twisted, elaborate, and evil stages can be fun. But 5 of them plus a Classifier is a good way to scare newbies, while 5 easy stages and a Classifier is a good way to bore experienced shooters. So moderate thine evil til its time for State and Area matches. A truly great stage offers choices... take the evil twisted route and hero or zero, or take the slow safe route. Lee usually does a good job of mixing stages and crafting a good match. But I worry sometimes about the level of evil that truly crawls around in his head! Have to see what he comes up with for March! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 It would be interesting to get feedback from NROI if they would allow these targets at a level 2 match. We shot a match at halloween that had gohsts, witches hats, etc painted on the face of the target. 25% of the lower A-zone was available, but I wondered how they would be accepted at a bigger match. It definitely made you think about the aiming point on each target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flack jacket Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 actually have to slow down and aim +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 With regards to CoF with targets that are all blacked out but the A zone, if these are used exclusively on a stage and no other targets presented then I would say it fails to meet Priciple 2 and possible Priciple 5 For priciple 2: 2. Accuracy, power and speed are the equivalent elements of practical shooting and practical competition must be conducted in such a way as to evaluate these elements equally You have eliminated the scoring difference of power factor and are no longer testing it. This is the same reason as rule 4.3.1.4 4.3.1.4 Various sizes of metal plates may be used (see Appendix B5), however, metal plates must not be used exclusively in a course of fire. At least one authorized paper target or Popper must be included in each course of fire An all plate stage is not allowed buecause there is no distiction between major and minor. While there is no direct rule prohibiting the use of hard cover in this fashion I would suggest it is bad course design and there should be at least 1 paper with all scoring zones available (could still have hard cover as long as all scoring zones are available (skunk stripe)) or at least 1 pepper popper. As for Priciple 5, is this a realistic target presentation? Why not just make and entire course of B zones? The target is smaller and tests accuracy, presents a more realistic target and has scoring zones to differentiate power factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) You have to put stripes on a target to make people slow down and aim? How about some 35yd targets or tight shots between no shoots or barrels? Long steel? If folks are wanting to have other shooters slow down and aim, maybe they should attend a different match. No one wins by not aiming. Lotsa folks win by aiming really fast. Edited February 13, 2012 by BillD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellymc Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 How was a hit with half the bullet in the strie scored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 How was a hit with half the bullet in the strie scored? Presumably the same way you'd score any other hit on a hardcover/scoring border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Kelly, any "partial diameter" scoring hit still scored. This is nothing new, in terms of scoring. Full diameter hits in the non-scoring area of a target will not score. Bill, some clubs don't have 35 yards available at their ranges, so to simulate distance, or just slow people down, we sometimes add partial targets to an array of full size targets. But I'm sure you already knew that. Also pay attention to the fact that we only had 3 or 4 of those tricky striped targets. Like someone said above, we don't want to scare people away, just add a little excitement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 With regards to CoF with targets that are all blacked out but the A zone, if these are used exclusively on a stage and no other targets presented then I would say it fails to meet Priciple 2 and possible Priciple 5 For priciple 2: 2. Accuracy, power and speed are the equivalent elements of practical shooting and practical competition must be conducted in such a way as to evaluate these elements equally You have eliminated the scoring difference of power factor and are no longer testing it. This is the same reason as rule 4.3.1.4 4.3.1.4 Various sizes of metal plates may be used (see Appendix B5), however, metal plates must not be used exclusively in a course of fire. At least one authorized paper target or Popper must be included in each course of fire An all plate stage is not allowed buecause there is no distiction between major and minor. While there is no direct rule prohibiting the use of hard cover in this fashion I would suggest it is bad course design and there should be at least 1 paper with all scoring zones available (could still have hard cover as long as all scoring zones are available (skunk stripe)) or at least 1 pepper popper. As for Priciple 5, is this a realistic target presentation? Why not just make and entire course of B zones? The target is smaller and tests accuracy, presents a more realistic target and has scoring zones to differentiate power factors. These points are well taken. Actually, my original stage had one fully-available metric target. It was the longest shot in the course of fire and you can plainly see it in the right corner of one of the photos in my original post. As for the idea, stated by another poster, that we feel we "need" stripes to force aiming, we do not feel that way at all. It is one of maybe a few thousand ways to present an accuracy challenge at speed. Distance, ackward positions, angles to target, moving targets, moving platforms, all these increase the challenge of shooting accurately. My only challenge to the original detractors at our match was, "why is this stripe an unacceptable method when all the others seem fine?" What I got in return was foul language; not a convincing argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 how does a popper score power factor ? Any hit in the calibration zone is supposed to make the target fall. Realistic ? targets stand behind trees all the time. Thats what the black stripes are simulating. Hard Cover. I think partial hardcover realistically is the norm more often than not, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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