High Lord Gomer Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 My 13 year old was shooting this M&P in a match Saturday when it went Boom. It blew the extractor out and put a very small cut on his hand. My best guess, as much as I hate it, is a double charge. It was defintely not a squib as it was his 5th shot and he had 2 on the first tagret, 2 on the second, and this one on the third. He was shooting a combination of my reloads (MG115FMJ, TG 4.5, 1.125 OAL) and some left over WWB. Again, I have to assume it was one of mine that went boom. Not sure what to do with it. Is there any point in sending it back to S&W? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Send it back to S&W for what? So they can throw it in the trash for you? That pistol is done. Time to buy a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feederic Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 IF they are anything like Glock, send it back. Keep the remaining WWB, and if the headstamp is a Winchester they may want you to send the ammo in. I had a reloading KB in my Glock and had the frame and just about everything else replaced for something like $50 out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I agree with Feederic, if the headstamp on that stuck brass is Winchester, keep the box of ammo it came from, call Winchester and S&W and see what they will do. You never know till you ask. If it is not a Winchester headstamp, chalk it up to a learning experience, and buy a new gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Call S&W and ask what they can do for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 good luck! we hope that BOOM does not stop the little guy shooting, glad he is okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 That there is the best KB pictures that I have ever seen on this forum. The only shot missing is the breech face. Sorry about your pistol there man. Safe shooting to you and yours! JZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I don't want to sound like a prick but how would this failure be in any way shape or form S&W's responsibility to "Take Care Of"? That amount of damage can only be caused by a compressed double charge. If I had to bet on who would be more probable in producing a compressed double charged round it wouldn't be Winchester. This is an expensive, and thankfully not an injuring, lesson to pay close attention when reloading your ammunition. Far too many people slip into a distracted vegetative mental state when reloading because its monotonous and boring then end up paying the price with these kind of dangerous failures. Keep alert and pay attention to what you are doing while reloading or suffer the consequences. Be thankful that nobody was seriously injured during this accident. Guns can easily be replaced. Fingers, hands, eyes, and other body parts are not easily replaced once damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 LOL...it will take more than that to slow him down. The next day he shot 3-gun: http://csrapistol.com/MultiGun/Pinetucky_102311_3gun.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirpy Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 You just admitted in print that you were using reloads along w/factory. Using reloads automatically takes S&W off the hook. Sorry. JMHOFWIW Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leozinho Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) And I was just reading a thread about how it was hard to load a 9mm with a double charge (without it being apparent.) What would a double charge of 4.5gr of TG look like in the case? Overflowing or nearly? I ask as a soon-to-be new reloader, and I might pick a powder partially based on it being high-volume and therefore harder to double charge without noticing it. Glad your boy was not injured. Edited October 26, 2011 by Leozinho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind bat Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I don't think S&W ihas any obligation to fix this gin but I know Glock will generally replace a KB gun at around half price. It's worth a phone call. Also, that's some damn good engineering. I've never seen a gun fire off a pipe bomb and not send the shooter to the hospital. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I'd keep it as a part donor and chalk up the price of a new M&P as tuition. Glad everyone's OK. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67 LS1 Camaro Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I don't want to sound like a prick but how would this failure be in any way shape or form S&W's responsibility to "Take Care Of"? That amount of damage can only be caused by a compressed double charge. If I had to bet on who would be more probable in producing a compressed double charged round it wouldn't be Winchester. This is an expensive, and thankfully not an injuring, lesson to pay close attention when reloading your ammunition. Far too many people slip into a distracted vegetative mental state when reloading because its monotonous and boring then end up paying the price with these kind of dangerous failures. Keep alert and pay attention to what you are doing while reloading or suffer the consequences. Be thankful that nobody was seriously injured during this accident. Guns can easily be replaced. Fingers, hands, eyes, and other body parts are not easily replaced once damaged. Agreed ........ Gomer, you should be more anal on reloading . I'm not even a fan of loading 500rds of ammo in 1hr... A 550 is good enough for me . 100rds. in 30min(sometimes more) . EVERY case is checked for powder/double charge before the bullet goes on top. I even use an LED head light . My son is also 13, if that happened to him , it would be my fault . And his mom would probably run me over..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prreed10 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 What would a double charge of 4.5gr of TG look like in the case? Overflowing or nearly? I ask as a soon-to-be new reloader, and I might pick a powder partially based on it being high-volume and therefore harder to double charge without noticing it. I was wondering the same. Maybe a light bullet would allow a compressed charge but I think it would be hard to get a 147gr to seat in a 9mm case with 9 gr of powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 What would a double charge of 4.5gr of TG look like in the case? Overflowing or nearly? I ask as a soon-to-be new reloader, and I might pick a powder partially based on it being high-volume and therefore harder to double charge without noticing it. I was wondering the same. Maybe a light bullet would allow a compressed charge but I think it would be hard to get a 147gr to seat in a 9mm case with 9 gr of powder. I was wondering the same about 9gr overflowing. I know the general tendency is to go with the reloader at fault, but the quality of the WWB I have seen lately is less than spectacular. My son was shooting some WWB last month and in a box of 100 we picked out 3 rounds that were not crimped. Not sure how something like that can happen in an automated process, but there they were. Two months ago had one WWB with a dud primer. So I would not totally discount the factory fodder not being at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67 LS1 Camaro Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I know the general tendency is to go with the reloader at fault, but the quality of the WWB I have seen lately is less than spectacular. My son was shooting some WWB last month and in a box of 100 we picked out 3 rounds that were not crimped. Like I said , be anal on your reloading . You would have caught the 3 rds that were not crimped if you case guaged every single round ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveU Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Lol: I'm anal but I draw the line at case gauging factory ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Hey Mike you don't run a 9MAJOR gun do you? Could have been an ammo mixup? But most guns can digest a few MAJOR rounds though. I load distinctly different bullets in minor and MAJOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Taliani Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I'm sorry that happened to you. Thank goodness your son is okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveU Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 By the way: here's 9 grains TG in a 9mm case. Sorta hard to double charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 My only reason to send it back to S&W would be to see what, if any, parts are still usable. At this point I am hoping the Apex Sear and Firing Pin Block would still be usable in another. No chance it was 9mm Major. I also seriously doubt it was WWB. When it happened it blew the mag out of the gun and it landed on the ground with the remaining 6 rounds still in the mag. I have become more lax in my reloading. A few years ago when I started I had 2 squibs. Since then I have had no problems in the last 150K or so rounds. I will definitely be much more careful, now. BTW, here is what 9.0gr of TiteGroup ( a double charge of 4.5) looks like in a 9mm case: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 A few more pics: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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