Hawthorne2k Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 - It should take very little effort for USPSA to post a message on its website regarding the timing of classification update. - When in doubt, communicate at the level of lowest common denominator. This minimize guessing or inference from members. Just my 2 pesos worth of opinion.... now, how do I find more time to shoot more? *ding* Good marketing is all about managing expectations: If you tell your customers we've got an A-#1 product, you better match your actions to your words and actions. The membership of USPSA (us) sends our money and gives them our time, ergo, we are their customers. They provide us with a measure of progress and a standardized format of competition that we then use in our sport/hobby/obsession. Any brick-and-mortar business that shut down for a week without telling their customers in advance would have to answer some tough questions from their customers when that week is up. What, therefore is our responsibility as customer/members of USPSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 Amazing at all the belly aching that goes on for a delay in classifiers, one would almost think it was a deposit into your checking account or something......happens every year The flip side is that since the Nats aren't a surprise to anyone, the staff might conceivably plan further ahead so that they could cover what needs to be done to get ready for the Nats and get the update out in time. It's also worth noting that for many members, the classifier system is a major part of why they are members. I shoot at several small clubs where the majority of regular shooters never shoot major matches. For these members, membership in USPSA is a goodwill gesture to the sport, and buys them a magazine and a monthly measure of how they stack up against the best of the best. Classifiers are a concrete way for them to measure improvement, so they look forward to the 15th with a little more enthusiasm than someone who's focused on the next level II or level III match. But truth be told, I don't see most of the comments as belly aching - just folks who'd like to see their classifications updated and who might have some ideas for ways to make that happen more efficiently. I think most of us have a healthy appreciation for what the staff do. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgood Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 It's also worth noting that for many members, the classifier system is a major part of why they are members. I shoot at several small clubs where the majority of regular shooters never shoot major matches. For these members, membership in USPSA is a goodwill gesture to the sport, and buys them a magazine and a monthly measure of how they stack up against the best of the best. Classifiers are a concrete way for them to measure improvement, so they look forward to the 15th with a little more enthusiasm than someone who's focused on the next level II or level III match. Hit the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 16 days....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) So what, are they just going to wait until October 15th now? Edited September 27, 2011 by Steve J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 What I think should happen is that they should run the update even if they run the October update a day later. We need to keep the dates and updates in order. One could have best 6 of the most current 8 valid classifiers change if an update is skipped. this could keep a person in a lower class when they should have moved up. Really I feel there is little excuse for not having run the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 If they waited until the 15th of October It will affect 4 level II matches that I know of. My big thing will be updating the personal information. I have several local shooters who have "expired memberships" until the database is updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will_M Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Surely they won't wait until October's update........ right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 What I think should happen is that they should run the update even if they run the October update a day later. We need to keep the dates and updates in order. One could have best 6 of the most current 8 valid classifiers change if an update is skipped. this could keep a person in a lower class when they should have moved up. Really I feel there is little excuse for not having run the update. Yep, I could see that being an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfish73 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 After having read many different opinions on this thread I understand that there are arguments for and against the classifier update at Nat's time. I also realize that the USPSA staff is extremely busy before and after the Nat's. Now, having got that disclaimer out of the way, it is my opinion that they should have updated the classifier and used the latest update for the Nat's. We all pay our USPSA dues and fees and one of the many things USPSA does for our money is process classifiers. If I pay for something I expect to receive that service/product in a timely manner, as I'm sure most everyone else does. From what I've read on this thread it seems that this is not the first time this has happened. One person that posted stated that classifiers have been delayed before for Nat's, SHOT, or other large events in the industry. To me this seems unprofessional. Anyway, at the very least I think they could have put up something on the website stating "Classifiers will not be run until after the Nat's due to all of our staff being at the Nat's." Just my opinion. Chris Harpin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawthorne2k Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 ... t is my opinion that they should have updated the classifier and used the latest update for the Nat's. We all pay our USPSA dues and fees and one of the many things USPSA does for our money is process classifiers. If I pay for something I expect to receive that service/product in a timely manner, as I'm sure most everyone else does. From what I've read on this thread it seems that this is not the first time this has happened. One person that posted stated that classifiers have been delayed before for Nat's, SHOT, or other large events in the industry. To me this seems unprofessional. Anyway, at the very least I think they could have put up something on the website stating "Classifiers will not be run until after the Nat's due to all of our staff being at the Nat's." Chris Harpin It's all about managing expectations. Judging by the responses here, there's a lot of shooters who understand that it gets busy in the USPSA offices around SHOT and the Nat's. However, those are events that happen every single year, and successful businesses know that and prepare for it. For instance, in my line of work, 60-75% of the year's revenue comes in from Halloween to New Year's Day. This is also the time I shoot the Area 2 Championships, which means I work my tail off before the Classic so I shoot it without worrying about my business. I know this, and I make adjustments to how I work. I'm not seeing this with regards to this one aspect of how the USPSA does business. Something as easy as a quick press release/web update (that would take an hour at most to write) would have spread the news and allowed us, the USPSA's customers, to set our expectations accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 The mentality of it is this way because it has always been this way is pure BS It is in the damn rulebook The classification system is run between the 10th and the 15th of each month, depending on whether the 10th is on a weekend. ALL scores received in the Sedro Woolley office on or before the 10th of each month are entered into the classification database. Over the next day or two, those scores are checked to ensure that they were entered correctly from the printed summary sheets submitted by clubs. After any corrections have been made, the computer classification program is started to evaluate each member’s current scores and to calculate a new current classification percentage. At the conclusion of this procedure, the new data is compiled and sent to the USPSA web site. Please note that the classification data on the web site is updated only one time each month. Shouldn't matter if there is a Nationals or not. It is something that is part of our membership and it is an expectation and it is an agreement as part of that memebership that it will be done monthly. There is no other excuse, scenario or situation that should allow this to happen. This is our National Event and there were people there not shooting in their correct class. There are 4 Level II or higher events going on, 3 Section Championship and an Area MG Match that will have some paid members of USPSA will not be shooting their correct classification and that is unacceptable. And why? Because there is alot going on? There is always alot going on but seriously if you know that the Nationals are on the 16th (maybe schedule it different?) then you plan for it, you don't make 15K people wait so it is easier at check in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 are the Classifiers that were in the Nationals used for classification (are they entered?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I didn't see any classifiers in the stage descriptions or videos. Maybe a couple that could become classifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I believe your overall precentage is your "classifer" score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I believe your overall precentage is your "classifer" score Correct. That wasn't what I gathered he was asking though. Some major matches do incorporate classifier stages within the match though so at times it's possible to get two "classifiers" out of one match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I believe your overall precentage is your "classifer" score Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 I'm surprised that Rob or one of the other folks from HQ hasn't stopped by to explain/advise/apologize, or at least give us a good idea when we can expect to see the update. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I'm surprised that Rob or one of the other folks from HQ hasn't stopped by to explain/advise/apologize, or at least give us a good idea when we can expect to see the update. BB You mean communicate with us? They are busy remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Let's see....If you are late on your rent, you pay a late charge....If you are late on your car payment, you pay a late charge....Late on anything, you pay a late charge....So, does this mean that the next classifiers we shoot are gonna be free? Or, do we get the same service as this time, and still get charged for it? We are paying them for a service, no matter how anyone wants to slice it, and they made the contract stating when each month that the service would be done. They have not fulfilled their part of the contract, but I'm quite sure our monies are in their purses.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) .... Edited September 27, 2011 by DrawandDuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 We are paying them for a service, no matter how anyone wants to slice it, and they made the contract stating when each month that the service would be done. They have not fulfilled their part of the contract, but I'm quite sure our monies are in their purses.... I don't know if alot of people realize this or not, but in order to have your classifier uploaded and for it to count it has to be paid for. From your entry fee the club has to pay USPSA to accept your classifier score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I thought the Virginia Count stage and the one next to it at the Production Nationals (4 targets at about 15 yards) were classifiers...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Rather than spending our time and energy bitching about this, how can we get it changed for next year? Who decides that it is OK not to run the update right before nationals? Surely this isn't a decision Val makes at her own discretion. Is this under the control of the President? Can it be addressed by the BOD? Would it be possible to take a small amount of the proceeds from the Nationals to hire someone to do data entry for the month preceeding the match? I would also like to look at a more long term solution: By the year 2020, all classifier scores must be submitted electronically. Certainly the clubs can find someone who knows how to run a computer if they are given 8+ years warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I thought the Virginia Count stage and the one next to it at the Production Nationals (4 targets at about 15 yards) were classifiers...? LOL! When one of our local clubs setup those two stages a few weeks ago, some people thought they were classifiers as well. They were good warm-ups for the actual classifier that the club had picked a few stages later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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