Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!
Sign in to follow this  
BDH

Scoresheets

Recommended Posts

Toward the tail end of last season I took over the Stats job for my local club, and it has been a real eye opener for me. Of the half dozen monthly matches that I have scored, I don't think I have gotten through a single one of them without finding one or more mistakes on the scoresheets. :blink:

Of course, under 9.7.5 the competitor gets a reshoot if possible, but since these are club matches the stages come down as soon as we finish and scoring errors usually are not caught until I get home, so then 9.7.6 takes over.... :(

Following are some best practices to help insure accurate and complete scoresheets (feel free to add to these).....

  • Write CLEARLY...
  • Use numbers, NEVER use hash marks...
  • Verbally repeat ALL scoring calls (hits or penalties), and time to the RO so he/she knows you recorded them correctly...
  • Total all hits columns...
  • Crossfoot the total hits (and misses) to make sure they correctly add up to the stage round count...
  • After you crossfoot the hits, CIRCLE the round count number to show you checked this...
  • If penalties are recorded, CIRCLE them so they stand out clearly...
  • If Procedurals are recorded, write down the reason for the Procedural penalty with the rule number to avoid questions later...
  • If you are scoring a big stage that may have multiple penalties, some RO's use 'tick' marks to keep tabs on the total number of penalties before they write the number in the actual penalty box. If you use 'tick' marks, keep them far away from the penalty boxes so they are not mistaken for some other penalty, etc...
  • Do NOT write anything in the penalty boxes except for penalties! Recently, I have been seeing people draw a diagonal line through the penalty boxes to show NO penalties. The problem with that is if you get a little careless, that diagonal line sure can look like the number one...
  • FOCUS on the scoresheet, NOT on the target! I find the easiest way to avoid scoresheet errors, is to only focus on the scoresheet. While it sometimes is hard to avoid looking over the RO's shoulder while he scores a target, I always try to just let the RO do his/her job and call the score, while I do my job and make sure I write down the accurate score...
  • Once you complete and check the scoresheet, walk the shooter through it. Any of you that have seen me at the big matches know that I generally put the completed scoresheet in front of the shooter, and then call everything out. For example, 12 Alpha, 2 Charlie, for a full count of 14 hits. No penalties, and your time was 5.73 sec...
  • After the shooter gets to review the scoresheet, have them sign it...
  • Make sure that YOU sign the scoresheet and record the time of day...

I know all this is really simple stuff, but based on doing Stats in only a half dozen matches, we make far too many errors on scoresheets (and I doubt that this is just my clubs issue). The shooter showed up to shoot, paid his entry fee, shot his match, and deserves an accurate accounting of his score (good or bad). I realize that often things are done a little more casually at local matches, but taking a little more time to double check things makes the Stats job easier, but more importantly, insures the the shooter gets an accurate score... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BDH,

I have been doing the scores for our club for about three years. We shoot a monthly match and two scored practice/training matches, so I get to run through about 36 matches a year as well I RO when I shoot at two-three other club matches in the area.

You said a mouthful.

I may copy your post, bullet point is and hand it out to the shooters at our next match.

I can't begin to tell you how many score sheets I get that have missing hits, nissing times, incorrect hit counts, seems steel is the big offender here. As a rule we try to list all the individual steel on a stage rather than just a box for the total steel.

The other items that are often missing; Division, Class (or lack of) Power Factor, USPSA Number, Changed address or E-mail, signature on the waiver.

Hey I shot here two years ago, they must know all that!

It turns a two-three hour job sometimes into a three-four night job when you are waiting for the answers to some of these questions.

Were it a large match, failure to provide Division and/or power factor would move you to Open Minor. I have not done this yet, but it is a standing threat :-).

Jim Norman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice job, Brian! :D

This is one of the areas we stress in level one classes, but it's something that must be practiced, and the occasional reminder doesn't hurt, either.

I'd add: if you record a procedural penalty, note what it's for. You don't need to write a book, but "foot fault", or something like that goes a long way when you are trying to remember why you gave that penalty.

Very nicely done!

Troy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have been doing the scores for our club for about three years. We shoot a monthly match and two scored practice/training matches, so I get to run through about 36 matches a year as well I RO when I shoot at two-three other club matches in the area.

Okay, I guess I was right and it is NOT just my local club! :D Until I started doing scores for the club though, I didn't realize how bad this problem was. I handle a ton of scoresheets every year especially since I usually work a couple of Nationals, a couple of Area, and a couple of other major matches (of course, in addition to all the local matches). So far, I have only had ONE scoresheet returned to my stage where it forced a reshoot (and that is one too many). While it wasn't directly my fault, I was the CRO so it was my responsibility. It did give me the opportunity to do a little 'coaching' of my RO's though! :lol:

People are human, and make mistakes, but just a little more attention would help smooth things out..... ;)

I'd add: if you record a procedural penalty, note what it's for. You don't need to write a book, but "foot fault", or something like that goes a long way when you are trying to remember why you gave that penalty.

I think I covered that one, but as always appreciate your comments! :D

Of course I hope I didn't just jinx myself, and end up seeing you riding up to my stage at the upcoming Pistol Nationals with a scowl on your face, and a scoresheet in your hand!! :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been doing stats for a couple of clubs for three years. I am to the point where I am grateful just to get a sheet with the hits recorded in the right place and the columns totaled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doing the scores is a tough job.

After the a local match a couple of months ago...where I got 4 score sheets without times...I came up with my "rule of three cirlces".

It worked pretty well.

At the last match, I got on the soap-box at the shooters meeting. soapbox.gif

- I told them how bad the score sheets had been in the past.

- I talked the importance of them getting it right...I have no crystal ball. Their match is, after all, contained on the score sheets.

- I stressed how it is the shooter's responsibility to ensure their score sheets are correct.

- Then there was/is my "rule of three circles" (catchy name...easy to remember). One cicle for the total hits (after adding the columns and cross-checking the hits), one circle for any penalties, and one circle for the time.

- I then stressed again that the shooter is responsible for thier score sheets...that they need to make sure this info (3-circles) was on the sheet...and it was correct...

- And, we went back to signing score sheets. It doesn't take any extra time. The RO and shooter aren't often resetting the stage anyway.

The results were unbelievable. Once the message was communicated to the players...and an easy method was provided...things improved completely.

Message and method.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another best practice - allow only ONE person to call out hits unless asked by the persons recording scores. I really hate it when numerous people all think they are "helping" by calling out hits on the targets they are taping while I am busy recording hits on other targets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my second full season of scoring for a local club. The problem improved at ours when some of the higher classed shooters tanked in the overall scoring by not having everything there. When you shot well enough to win a match and lose it because you (the shooter) did not make sure that all the info was there, well...folks tend to pay a bit more attention now.

Hehe...I've even sent the scanned scoresheet to the shooter to show I'm not making it up.

But this season we have some new folks and they are slipping a bit...so I did as both BDH and Flex did, send the email, mention it at the match, and when you see a zero on a stage, don't blame anyone but yourself!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that helps tremendously is to have a scoresheet like the classifiers, with individual boxes for each scoring zone on each target. On most field courses, you record a "2" or two "1" on each target. These are almost impossible to get the round count wrong, unlike the "open area" scoresheets.

For my section championship, I made up scoresheets that have double-boxes for procedurals, no-shoots, and VC penalties. The outer box is the "scratch" box to record the dings as you go along. The bold inner box is the "total" box for the stats person. Without this method, you might record 1 no-shoot and then 1 more, and it looks like 11 to stats.

The worst things are disappearing targets. Most scoresheets don't have a non-penalty miss box, so the circle mikes are recorded along with the mikes. When the misses are totalled up by the ARO, the NPMs aren't broken out from the penalty Ms; they are added together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Erik,

Great point on the disapearing targets.

What does everybody do with those?

Personally, I like to put a diagonal slash thru the "Mike box" on the line of the disappearing target. Then, I add an additional tally box for the NPM (no penalty miss). That way, the total hits can still be tallied.

What is really nice is if you can get the score sheets printed up like this before hand...and get the disappearing target in the right place for the way the stage will be scored.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think I covered that one, but as always appreciate your comments!

Hey, yeah, you did. My bad!

I knew I wasted my money on that speed reading course. :P

Troy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On disappearing targets, we generally type in DISAPPEARING in the comments line and blank out the miss box. Doing the scores I just have to remember to add inthe NP Mikes. It also pays to put the Disappearing target at either the top or bottom of the list.

We made up scoresheet templates in Word and keep them in Text Boxes. You can move them around. add lines etc. Each target gets a line with A, B, C, D, and Mike, N/S, Proc boxes.

Steel is generally one line per piece, although we have a few build ion the fly designers or if we have a really long course, lots of steel and targets, we will sometimes put all the steel on one line. That is when we get the most errors.

I like the idea of the three circles. I'll have to work on some wording and see if I can send it out.

The subject of who should call out the scores and what order is used is critical, I hate it when someone tapes ahead and then tels me 2-A, A-C, 2A. It screws up my concentration and I think it is just wrong, It does not move the squad along that much faster and if that person is not there every time, youcan wind up passing up a target. I usually find a path and follow it regardless of where the shooter finishes. That way I pass all the targets and rarely miss one.

. Repeating the calls can get confusing if there are a lot of nearby stages also calling out hits.

It is a bitch to see a shooter that should have won, get a zero because there is no time.

Very important to check and sign scoresheets.

Jim Norman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BDH,

An excellent post, which I'm pinning to this section for future reference. And this also gets you yet another Uncle Vinny Gold Star on your record :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And this also gets you yet another Uncle Vinny Gold Star on your record  :)

Does that mean I might get my IROA shirt some day?? Got my card, but not the shirt..... of course, maybe they are spinning up more material to cover me completely! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do enough stats work to appreciate the points made here. The score sheets that our club uses put two stages per page and only have one set of rectangular ABCDM boxes and then a square total box to the right of that. Hash marks are a real PITA with this format. The two stage time sheets we use also present the problem of identfying the stage if the shooter, or the signup handler didn't pre-number them. This can be done by matching up hit totals to stage round counts, but is another PITA when you are trying to burn through a stack of score sheets. No shooter number, or name on the sheet really helps speed things up. Illegible scrawls instead of clearly readable numbers in the time box are real helpful too :rolleyes:

At our club matches we squad and rotate through the stages, so unless the two stage score sheets we use are pre-numbered with the stage numbers at signup, they come in entered willy nilly in the top and bottom per stage, per squad and this is another big time waster if you don't keep your eyes peeled, and your brain off auto-pilot while entering scores. IMHO, all score sheets should be similar to classifier score sheets, ie; one stage per sheet, individual ADCDM boxes for each target (Erik is right on the money here). Circling the penalty box(es) is a big help for the person entering. It is very hard to scan sheet after sheet and see everything, everytime if it isn't called out. I usually scan a sheet once before I enter it, then again before I hit the enter key. I find something I missed just often enough to make this a very worthwhile routine.

When the round counts don't add up on the score sheets and the need to enter and move on is pressing, I evaluate the sheet with an eye to how far off the error is, how competitive the shooter is, what level of score is this shooter gonna get on that stage and so on. If it's a very competitive run for that shooter and the shooting is still going on, I try to solve the problem by going out to that squad and doing a little forensic work to see if the hit can be recovered from memory, or offering a re-shoot if the hit can't be recovered from memory. If the score in question is way, way, way slower than it should be, or has lotsa' no-shoots and penalties, or the shooter is gone and no one can help recover the data from memory, or the stages are already torn down, I just add A's (or subtract D's) until it is correct. Say what you will about this, but at club matches you sometimes have to do things a little off-book just to get it all done.

Doing stats is not sweaty, gritty work like setting up and tearing down stages is, but it is demanding and very grueling in it's own way. All work for the cause of shooting is rewarding though, and I prefer to be someone who is involved with what it takes to put the shooting on than to just be a shoot-n-scooter (the most common competitor species). I have never been able to just go to a shooting club for the matches and not get involved in helping out in some manner. I'm just stupid that way :P

--

Regards,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a tip for people entering scores, especially those like the classifier sheets with separate boxes for penalties off on one side-- separate the sheets by stage, then go through the stage stacks and place all the ones with penalties on top. Enter all those and once you run out of sheets with penalties, then you no longer have to look for them on the rest of the stack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Following are some best practices to help insure accurate and complete scoresheets (feel free to add to these).....

Pretty much sums it up, but I've seen a lot of problems due to negligent corrections, so lemme add a few more:

- always check whether the name of the shooter appears on the score sheet. Best practice is to call the shooter by name right before the LAMR command. That'll help the RO to avoid recording the score on someone else's score sheet, too.

- if you're going to wind your way into the heart of the SO, you might as well check whether the competitor's number is recorded... (this one is optional)

- if you made a mistake and have to correct a target row, always, I mean always repeat the correct call in the "notes" column like "1A,1C", and put your sign near, too.

- if you made a mistake in the sum row, you'd help us SO guys a lot if you'd repeat the correct number right below the corrected one. In many cases it's hard to decide what digit that squiggle was... (this one is rather optional - the SO can sum up, too, if needed)

- if you have to correct the time, always repeat it clearly somewhere on the score sheet, in a clear, white place, and (unless it's really close to the original time box) draw an arrow pointing there from the time box, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a scoresheet in Word. We paste this into text boxes and can fit 7 stage and the sign in info on two sides of one 8-1/2 x 11 sheet.

I will gladly post it if someone tells me how. I don't have a copy up o our website, i suppose I could place one there, but if there is another way?

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here's a tip for people entering scores, especially those like the classifier sheets with separate boxes for penalties off on one side-- separate the sheets by stage, then go through the stage stacks and place all the ones with penalties on top. Enter all those and once you run out of sheets with penalties, then you no longer have to look for them on the rest of the stack.

That's a great idea!

Another thing that helps, but is rarely possible, is having a two person team for data entry. With one person doing the typing and clicking while another reads the information to them aloud, things can really fly!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Another thing that helps, but is rarely possible, is having a two person team for data entry. With one person doing the typing and clicking while another reads the information to them aloud, things can really fly!

That is one of the fastest ways to enter from "raw" score sheets that there is. If you both proof the sheets into ready stacks before entering it really rocks that way. A two person scoring team is really, really fast and will actually let the scorers catch up "sometimes" :o

But three really rocks! I did most of the keyboard entry at a major match many moons ago where we had a three person stats team. One person went over the sheets and removed any with unreconcilable discrepancies and did all the little notation fixes needed to read them fast without getting stopped on errors. The second person was handed collated stacks of sheets which were then read aloud to me as I stayed focused on the application (we used MSS running in MS-DOS back then which will tell some of you when this could be and explains why staying focused on the app was a good idea). We flew through a few thousand sheets over a few days with so much time to spare that it was ridiculous. We actually spent more of our time keeping the database current on the backup machine (via "sneaker-net") and going around on bicycles picking up sheets, or getting discrepancies reconciled than we spent entering. We had scoring finished before it was wanted by the MD, which was a minor miracle back then. :P

--

Regards,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OH yeah, why is it that most people don't add up the scores on classifier scoresheets? Are they scared off by the nearby "stats use only" boxes? Folks, add up the ABCDMs so the person sitting at the computer doesn't have to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Failure to add the hits is what costs me the most time when I am entering the scores on the computer. As was mentioned before, the primary reason to add them right after scoring is to verify that scoring has accounted for all of the shots. Adding in that it really helps the stats person, it's something that really needs to get done!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually I can live without he shooter adding up his hits. Seems too many of them/us can't add right anyway. If all the rows are full withthe correct number of hits and if the time is there. I am happy. Now, IF we as a group learn to add, and include the hits on the stell in the total A count, then having hte sheets added up would certainly be a plus.

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Erik:

I think folks are scared off by the stats only boxes. I removed those boxes entirely from our scoresheets. We use a generic score sheet and circle the NPM because we never know where the turners will end up, lol.

I know this sounds simple, but for Steel Challenge stages, USPSA Classifer Specials, the classifer each month, etc., I use a different colored piece of paper for each stage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...