Bedell vs Gary Natali

[Nightrod]

need help for Voting. Planning to get Open between the 2

[BlueOvalBruin]

What's your schedule look like? Both build great guns but if it were me I'd go with Gary. It's just hard to beat that lead time.

[blaster113]

When I was shopping around for a new Open gun I narrowed it down to these two guys. I needed maximum bang for my somewhat limited budget, looking for build quality and fast build time. I was on a somewhat tight budget and I definitely cant wait 1 yr or more for a gun to be built. I ended up going with Gary Natale (gansguns.com) because of the myriad slide lightening options, the ability to put exactly what you want in the gun and the very quick build time. Sent him two boxes full of parts and about 3 weeks later received a completed gun. Gun is fit well, has an excellent trigger and runs like a top. My gun has extensive slide lightening, 90 deg scope mount, slide racker, all the goodies. Only thing is Gans doesnt do hard chrome which I like. Left the gun in the white, shot it for a while then recently sent it out to get chromed.

Bedell's guns are reasonably priced and include high quality parts as well. Not sure about his current lead time. I would use either builder to build a new gun with complete confidence.

[dapribek]

Don't know anything about Gary's work, but I know Dan well. Dan's built limited, open and a single stack for me. Lead times were always reasonable. I can truly say that each gun was worth the wait! They all ran beautifully when I received them. Dan is very knowledgeable and easy to work with. He really gets my highest recommendation! Hope this helps.

[Rye]

I would go with Bedell... Excellent customer service.... Very knowledgeable... Price is reasonable..... And the gun runs like a champ...

[soaringf22]

dan is about a 3 month turnaround time, call tony at VS and he is a great guy to deal with and will chat with you all day about your needs, where as a gunsmith doesnt have that time. dealing with tony for dans work was a great idea, Tony will even talk you out of certain work. go figure.

I like Gary he is quick on his feet will answer email mainly, but in a heartbeat at that. but you provide the parts so:

if you know what you want with the parts you want it done with and know how to get the right parts and frame and ship everything go with Gary you wont regret it.

if you arent familiar with everything you want or need or options available go with Dan.

another thing between these two smiths is they both add their own flair to their work that is different from most other gunsmiths, you can especially see what i mean buy goin on gans website and seeing all the pictures.

[TwoShot]

I have a Bedell 9 major full size open gun. The gun has run flawlessly for me. Dan and Tony have answered my questions and offered good advice. I am very pleased with the gun and the service, I have a second gun on order from Bedell. I have no personal experience with Gary N.

[donnyglock]

You cant go wrong either way. I have guns from Dan and Gary. Gans turn around time is unreal and his machine skills are second to none.

[Chris iliff]

Both are good. Personally, Gan's has built my guns. Everything above is correct. Gan's will build my next gun also, unless I hit the lotto, then I'm getting a Limcat Razorcat. Probably not any better than a Gan's or Bedell, but dang they are sexy!!!!!

[PINMAN44]

Gary built this and is putting the finishing touches on it for me...

I'd like to thank my sponsors EGW,KKM, STI, and ALLCHIN for all their help.

Gary does great work, by the way this took him just shy of 8 days to build.

Thanks,

Robby

Edited August 4, 2011 by PINMAN44

[BlueOvalBruin]

I went to Gary Natale's website today and saw this:

"I do not build guns or work on guns for residents of California. If you send me a

gun or parts to build with, I will return them at your cost."

WTF is that!? I sure hope Gary can come here and explain why he can't work on guns for California residents. The OP looks to be a California resident also so that might narrow down his options.

[blaster113]

probably has to do with CA's restrictions on certain pistols. In Hawaii we have our own stupid gun laws which dont do shit but effect the law abiding owner. I bet CA's gun laws do a lot to take guns out of the hands of the gangbangers and felons just like Hawaii's laws do. (rant off)

[Glk21C]

Gary built this and is putting the finishing touches on it for me...

I'd like to thank my sponsors EGW,KKM, STI, and ALLCHIN for all their help.

Gary does great work, by the way this took him just shy of 8 days to build.

Thanks,

Robby

Robby, ports in the barrel too?? Just preparing myself for the next time I'm RO'ing you.....

[Pezco]

+1 for Bedell! I have a Bedell Shorty in 38SC that runs like a champ! Dan communicates well and is reasonably priced.

[Chuck Anderson]

I went to Gary Natale's website today and saw this:

"I do not build guns or work on guns for residents of California. If you send me a

gun or parts to build with, I will return them at your cost."

WTF is that!? I sure hope Gary can come here and explain why he can't work on guns for California residents. The OP looks to be a California resident also so that might narrow down his options.

I think it will narrow down the OP's choices if Bedell is the only one that will take his business. As far as shipping to CA, it's a pain in the ass. I do it but I know lots and lots of FFL's that won't. And if you think it's easy figuring out California's laws, ask Shawn Nealon formerly of Cavalry Arms. I still haven't figured out what he did to end up in prison, and believe me I've asked. That right there was almost enough to cut off any shipments to Cali.

[PINMAN44]

I went to Gary Natale's website today and saw this:

"I do not build guns or work on guns for residents of California. If you send me a

gun or parts to build with, I will return them at your cost."

WTF is that!? I sure hope Gary can come here and explain why he can't work on guns for California residents. The OP looks to be a California resident also so that might narrow down his options.

Blue,

Gary has his reasons. He is a very smart man with amazing pistol smith skills. He is very flexible, however he sticks to certain set of standards that he feels comfortable with. I was going to mention this to the guy who started the thread but I didn't want to be a buzz kill.

[PINMAN44]

Gary built this and is putting the finishing touches on it for me...

I'd like to thank my sponsors EGW,KKM, STI, and ALLCHIN for all their help.

Gary does great work, by the way this took him just shy of 8 days to build.

Thanks,

Robby

Robby, ports in the barrel too?? Just preparing myself for the next time I'm RO'ing you.....

Hey brothaaaa,

No barrel ports for me. All comp. However I'll be using longshot again so it will be loud lol....

Hope you're well Art!

Robby

[BlueOvalBruin]

Blue,

Gary has his reasons. He is a very smart man with amazing pistol smith skills. He is very flexible, however he sticks to certain set of standards that he feels comfortable with. I was going to mention this to the guy who started the thread but I didn't want to be a buzz kill.

There are plenty of ways to legally obtain an STI frame in California and as far as I know, that’s the only part that’s regulated here. And as far as shipping goes, Cal DOJ registration and shipping approvals are only required for guns sent from an FFL to another FFL. In Gary’s model, where you send him the parts including a registered frame and he sends back the completed gun, there does not need to be another FFL involved so all that paperwork and hassle is avoided. So why on earth is he shutting off California customers, which account for 1 of every 8 people in this country.

[PINMAN44]

Hi Blue,

I honestly do not know the answer to your question.

Sorry,

Robby

[norbs007]

To the OP, hard to work with individuals who refuses to do more research and take the shortcut by simply shutting out California. There's quite a few and nothing much can be done, it's their right. Anyway, I'm sure you've looked at others and there are plenty who would be happy to take your business. Not sure if you checked Akai Custom Guns, Shay makes nice guns. There's also JV Dynamics who's fairly close to you and Limcat Custom to name a few. Good luck and welcome to the dark side

[BlueOvalBruin]

Hi Blue,

I honestly do not know the answer to your question.

Sorry,

Robby

Hopefully Mr. Natale can post here and explain his policy. It makes no sense to limit one’s market if there’s no legal requirement. I used to think the worst enemy of the California practical shooter would be government regulation, but now we have to deal with arbitrary self imposed policies of gunsmiths (Gans) and manufacturers (STI). I would think that someone who’s business relies on his customers’ ability to buy guns would be more supportive of those on the front lines of the gun control war.

[lumpygravy]

I'm in CA and I had GANs on my short list for a build (my wide body frame, slide, parts, etc...) until he posted this policy. I don't agree with it for all of the reasons BOB stated, however, it's Mr. Natale's business and his to run according to his rules so I have to respect that.

[gans]

Hi Blue,

I honestly do not know the answer to your question.

Sorry,

Robby

Hopefully Mr. Natale can post here and explain his policy. It makes no sense to limit one’s market if there’s no legal requirement. I used to think the worst enemy of the California practical shooter would be government regulation, but now we have to deal with arbitrary self imposed policies of gunsmiths (Gans) and manufacturers (STI). I would think that someone who’s business relies on his customers’ ability to buy guns would be more supportive of those on the front lines of the gun control war.

...

I am not on CA Roster of Handguns Certified for sale in CA. So, I am not allowed to build guns for CA residents.

Also, I am not allowed to install compensators on threaded 1911 barrels. PC 12276.1(a)(4)(A).

If I missed something, let me know. It seems that those are CA laws and not my policies, that are the problem.

[diehli]

I am not on CA Roster of Handguns Certified for sale in CA. So, I am not allowed to build guns for CA residents.

Also, I am not allowed to install compensators on threaded 1911 barrels. PC 12276.1(a)(4)(A).

If I missed something, let me know. It seems that those are CA laws and not my policies, that are the problem.

Gary, thanks for posting. I, too, was hoping to have you do some work at some point in the future.

Re: the roster, you don't need to be on it as you're not producing a new gun with a new serial number. The roster is only for newly manufactured guns. Per the ATF, the serialized portion of the firearm (the frame) is the firearm.

In order for a CA resident to have a frame, she would have to go through the registration process (whether purchasing it through a private party transfer, obtaining it through an intra-familial transfer, or coming into the state with them as a new resident; there are some exceptions that are unimportant, but do not affect the fact that you are not producing a new firearm) and it would be that person's gun/frame, not yours. You are simply a gunsmith, not a seller or manufacturer of a firearm, and have temporary possession (not ownership, like if you were selling the frame). Any frame that would be sent to you would not need to be re-registered to re-enter the state and could be sent directly back to the owner in CA (following the ATF guidelines for interstate shipping of firearms, as you would for any other resident).

Re: compensators, I went through this with the CA DOJ many years ago. The statute you cited describes certain features that will lead a pistol to be designated an assault weapon, which are illegal in CA. The text reads:

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall

also mean any of the following:

. . .

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a

detachable magazine and any one of the following:

(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor,

forward handgrip, or silencer.

The important part of that is what's underlined: "capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer." I described a compensator to the DOJ folks as both a flash-enhancer and a loudener. More importantly, however, I pointed out that on cone-comped guns, the gun is not capable of accepting anything as removing the comp makes it essentially useless. The DOJ person I spoke with said, in essence, no problem.

An overzealous prosecutor might be able to make a case with a threaded bull-barrel, where the owner has removed the Loctited-on comp and reassembled the gun, but what you would have sent would not be "capable of accepting" anything. It'd be the owner's ass on the line, not yours.

HTH. You're still legally able to provide CAliens with your services, if you're so inclined.

Disclaimer [since I'm a law student]: the above is not legal advice. Consult an attorney (whether private or CA DOJ) for legal advice.

[BlueOvalBruin]

Hi Gary, thank you for your response.

+1 on what diehli said. A California customer would first have to legally purchase a frame from another person (registration is part of the purchase/transfer process). Once they are in possession of the registered frame they can then send the frame plus other parts to you for fitting. Since that person already owns the frame, you are just modifying their gun and not manufacturing or selling it. Once your work is finished you can just ship the completed gun back to the customer without any FFL involvement just like any other state.

A California customer would not be allowed to have you provide a frame, but any other parts are fair game. If you provided the frame on a build then that would technically be a gun sale and then the California safe handguns roster comes into play.

Also, a California customer could ship you their pistol for a regular gunsmithing job (slide lightening, trigger job, reliability package, etc.) and you could ship it right back to them just like any other state.

As far as the threaded barrel issue goes, like diehli said it’s not an issue with cone style comps. And if you see that matches out here, you’ll see that the percentage of shooters in open is the same as anywhere else and they aren’t exactly gluing their comps on. Plus, in regards to the applicable penal code, liability is owned by the gun possessor, not a shipper.

I really hope you reconsider your policy, there are a lot of folks out here who would love to have you work on their guns.