At what point of the draw does your finger engage the trigger

[JasonS]

Went through a orientation class prior to shooting a match today, where I was instructed that a proper draw was to push the safety off (while holstered) then draw and aim. This took me a bit by surprise, and while I understand the benefit for the early safety push in a combat scenario (if per se I needed to shoot from the hip), I'm still not really all that comfortable with doing it that way. My method has always been to click the safety off after the draw, while pushing the gun forward toward the target.

Anyway this leads me to my question and I'm curious where in the draw more experienced shooters are going off safety?

Thanks,

Jason

[ParaGunner]

I shoot a 1911 and I click the safety off when my support hand grips the gun while bringing the gun up to my line of sight.

[a.roberts]

When my finger touches the trigger. as I usually shoot a Glock

If it's a 1911 pattern, the safety comes off as I'm pushing the gun out.

[AR Gunner]

Did they really say take off the safety first, then draw? Obviously, this method is not as safe or as quick as taking the safety off at the same time you're moving the gun toward the target.

[cyburg]

Very unsafe, big safety violation. We had a few over the years in training learn the hard way about doing that. A round through the thigh will be a lasting reminder.

As the hands come together, unless your going to shoot one handed then as they are pushing out.

Simper fi

Edited March 7, 2011 by cyburg

[Coach]

When my hands come together if shooting freestyle. Once it is in the weak hand while shooting WHO. Taking the safety off in the holder is risky and not necessary for speed.

[hankfan79]

When the gun is parallel to the ground...ya know..kinda like your supposed to.

[CocoBolo]

Went through a orientation class prior to shooting a match today, where I was instructed that a proper draw was to push the safety off (while holstered) then draw and aim. This took me a bit by surprise, and while I understand the benefit for the early safety push in a combat scenario (if per se I needed to shoot from the hip), I'm still not really all that comfortable with doing it that way. My method has always been to click the safety off after the draw, while pushing the gun forward toward the target.

Anyway this leads me to my question and I'm curious where in the draw more experienced shooters are going off safety?

Thanks,

Jason

That was an un-safety briefing. You had it right as you push the gun out is the time to release the safety. Doing it in the holster is extremely dangerous.

[HRider]

Like others have said, I push the safety off when my support hand comes to the gun while shooting freestyle. If strong hand only, while I am pushing the gun out. For weakhand only (from the draw), right before I transfer the gun as I don't have ambi safetys on any of my guns.

Hurley

[JasonS]

Thanks guys, I figured as much.

J

[shooter57]

Should go back to that instructor and ask if he misspoke about the takeing the safty off or did you just mis hear what he said.

[JakeMartens]

As I am pushing it forward and bringing in my weak hand

[Jon Merricks]

Just about the time the muzzle clears my feet.

[pjb45]

On a 1911 type gun, the safety comes off after the gun clears the holster and as the support hand grips the gun. Most try to get the support hand on the early rather than waiting until the gun is mid-chest level.

Taking the safety off as the gun is being pushed out can (I write can) cause the muzzle to dip a bit while the thumb is pushing down the safety.

I totally agree that taking the safety off while holstered is a tad bit unsafe. It is better to be safe than sorry. By this I mean, if for some reason; bad holster, grip, etc., the gun fires due to the safety being off while drawing from the holster, there is a greater probability of the round hitting a body part. Why take the chance.

I have seen many LEOs jam their magazine into the gun while the gun is holstered. I do not believe this is safe either.

[dagger10k]

What he said. I don't put my finger in the guard until a bit later, but I need to get the safety off before I get my support hand on the gun, or I won't be able to get it off at all.

I certainly never do it in the holster!

Just about the time the muzzle clears my feet.

[Benl]

I shoot a 1911 and I click the safety off when my support hand grips the gun while bringing the gun up to my line of sight.

I do this, as well. There's a youtube video by the Army team captain that suggests that is the proper time to take you pistol off safety.

[little_kahuna]

Don't limit yourself to any one style. try to stay flexible; take the safety off whenever it's natural as you prepare to shoot. Most of the time I take it off safe as my hands come together, but there are plenty of times when you'll need to draw and engagestrong or weak hand and you'll have to take your safety off at what might seem "unnatural" but stay flexible

[Lee G]

OK, I'm sure I'll get flamed but, why is it not safe to disengage the safety when establishing your grip on draw? I carried an M9 for two tours and aways disengaged the safety during my draw. I couldn't reach it effectively under stress using fine motor skills. I shoot an XD9 with a 3# trigger for production. The travel has been reduced and it's about as close as you can get to a 1911 feel on this type of pistol. There is no safety to disengage so how is not unsafe but a coming of a 1911 safety in the holster is? Just keep the finger out of the trigger guard until ready to fire.

[sfchorn]

OK, I'm sure I'll get flamed but, why is it not safe to disengage the safety when establishing your grip on draw? I carried an M9 for two tours and aways disengaged the safety during my draw. I couldn't reach it effectively under stress using fine motor skills. I shoot an XD9 with a 3# trigger for production. The travel has been reduced and it's about as close as you can get to a 1911 feel on this type of pistol. There is no safety to disengage so how is not unsafe but a coming of a 1911 safety in the holster is? Just keep the finger out of the trigger guard until ready to fire.

No flame, just opinion.

There is rarely a single point of failure that causes an accident. In the majority of cases, what happens is called a "cascade failure" - multiple errors lead to the end result.

On a 1911: If the thumb safety is engaged, the grip safety is functioning, and the finger stays off of the trigger, you have to overcome three issues before you can torch a round off into your foot. A significant number of us pin or disable the grip safety. Now we're down to two issues to overcome before things get painful. I don't want to get to the point where there is only one thing to overcome. I've done stupid things in my life that I can't explain. I will probably do stupid things again that I won't be able to explain. I don't like pain.

The M9 has a hammer drop that disenages the trigger. It is not normally carried cocked and locked, so the comparison isn't relevant. I will agree that due to the size of the gun and the position of the hammer drop control so high on the slide, it is a bear to get to. But after disengaging it, you still had a loooong, gritty, 12lb or more double action pull to contend with, not a 2lb signle action pull.

The XD is closer to a good comparison, except that the main safety on an XD (or Glock) is on the trigger itself - either the Ultra Safe-Action Trigger or the Safe-action Trigger. The main safety on a 1911 is the thumb safety. The idea is to only disengage the main safety after the blaster is no longer pointing at any part of you.

Edited to add that M9 is not normally carried with the hammer back, although it is possible. At that point there is no "main" safety between stupidity and pain.

Also edited to add: I agree the primary safety on ANY device is between the ears of the operator. No mechanical safety device can withstand the foolishness to figure out a way to defeat it.

Edited March 15, 2011 by sfchorn

[cyburg]

Yes you do loss some fine motor skills, that is what glock preached in their presentation and sold everyone one. I just want to know him we can still operate the trigger with so much skill under pressure, seeing that that is a fine motor skill.

[BCrane]

Just about the time the muzzle clears my feet.

This.

My hands are too large to disengage the safety once my support hand has made contact with the weapon.

[Erik S.]

When the safety is engaged, my grip just isn't quite right....mainly my support hand's palm "filling the gap". To achieve a consistent grip based on how the gun is going to be shot (safety disengaged), I click off the safety just as it clears my holster/feet/body. It's when my support hand is on its way to the gun but before the "push" towards the target. I have slowed down my draw and would estimate that an accidental discharge would hit about 10-15ft in front of me if the trigger were to be pressed somehow right as the safety is disengaged. MY TRIGGER FINGER, on the other hand, stays out of the trigger guard until the last part of my push. This is when I take up the "take up" and by then I'm on target. By this point, the gun is pointed way down range.

[McAllyn]

On a standard Beretta 92, if the safety is engaged, the hammer will drop, so cocked and locked doesn't work. There are a couple varients that are single action, but I don't believe the M9 is one of them (92 Combat, CB, and Steel I are the only ones I can think of.) If you have it holstered with the hammer back, God love you, because the single action pull is all that stands between you and crutches.

The XD still has the grip safety and trigger safety to overcome before it can fire, so any time your finger is not in the trigger guard, you pretty much cannot fire the pistol.

I would never go cocked and unlocked with a xx11 pistol holstered. My 2011 has barely a 2lb pull, and if my finger even got close to the trigger guard, it would take less than a blink to pop off a round.

I'm ultra slow with my xx11's at this point as I'm still in Production mode, but that is specifically due to making sure my thumb doesn't drop the safety until I'm about 60-70% extended towards the target.

Mac

[Pro2AInPA]

I flip the safety off once the muzzle is clear of my body parts, like Jon said.

As far as following what this "instructor" told you to do, I would think doing that at a USPSA match would lead to a DQ. I seem to remember there being a rule against having a loaded gun holstered with the safety off.

[feebie]

I shoot a 1911 and I click the safety off when my support hand grips the gun while bringing the gun up to my line of sight.

I do this, as well. There's a youtube video by the Army team captain that suggests that is the proper time to take you pistol off safety.

Also, from the 3GM DVD, both Kirsch and Michel instruct students to disengage the safety when the support hand contacts the pistol at which time the muzzle is downrange. (Hobdell is using a production CZ so the thumb safety is not relevant to his presentation.)