Is shooting SS the key to getting better

[tnichols]

Shoot SS, and enjoy that wonderful feeling of being dang near out, even when you're topped off!

[38supPat]

The hardest division is always the one you are in...

[XRe]

I'm going to ignore Revo for the purposes of this post It's just a completely different game relative to my point... (but it still seems to apply to some degree below...?)

It's very rare these days to see someone get extremely good by shooting a capacity limited division only. The reason is, the more capacity limited the division, the more the game becomes about reloads - and while you're reloading, you're essentially not doing/learning other things (like getting your movement, entries/exits, etc perfected). Different divisions will teach you different things, but you'll improve more quickly across the whole game by shooting a higher capacity division for a while, and learning the whole game... Then restrict your capacity and focus specifically on reloads and ammo management, and the particulars of strategy for that division.

And, I agree with Pat... everyone always things their pet division is the hardest. Face it - they're all hard, just in different ways. If you think a particular division is easier than another, you haven't truly played that other division and tried to be competitive in it...

[Corey]

While SS (any limited capacity dvision) can help with stage breakdowns, its not necessarily perfect at thatfor every division. Different divisions can shoot a stage completely different and just bc you know hw break a stage into 8s, doesnt mean youll be a great stage breakdown master with a different division. Shot a stage recently that SSers all shot one way and lim/open did something completely different.

I think it does help with the midset of making the shots count (you dont have many to spare) and reload techniques (you're gonna do them....a LOT).

[carlosa]

Here's my two cents, as some one who shot ss relatively well for the last year, and just made the jump to limited..

SS puts focus on fundamentals, sight picture, sight alignment, trigger control, recoil management, focus, and admin task such as speed reload, and and reload from slide lock.

it also rewards a stop and go style of shooting, find the best shooting position, get there fast, plant your self, shoot all the targets, start to reload and move again.. having to reload within arrays keeps you're eyes on the mag well, which doesn't allow your vision to control your movement (look for the next alpha).

if you switch from SS to a high cap div, you'll find that you'll have to work on a different skill set.. mostly keep the gun running.. shoot, move, lean, towards the next alpha, if there's to much space between shots find the next alpha and let your body get there... shoot as soon as you see..

it's a different strategy..

I guess what I'm trying to say is SS is good.. but i might not make you "better" at other divisions. it takes the same amount of practice an effort to be good in other divisions seance the style of shooting changes..

it's not a bad idea, but know that if you reach a level of proficiency in ss, switching division (specially switching to new gun) can bring up a new set of problems you will have to work out..

cheers,

Los.

[38supPat]

Hmmm, while not the hardest, unless you are competing in them...lol, a good plan for learning might be to shoot in Limited and Limited 10 alternatively. You use the same gun but develop plans and skills for low capacity and different ones for high capacity and it doesn't cost you any extra...

[benos]

I get a kick out of the "this division is hardest" discussions. The bottom line is this, it's challenging to shoot 32 round field courses with a 6-shooter. Guess what, everyone else you're competing against is using the same gear! Same for SS. You only get 8 rounds and the gun is tough to reload... Same thing for your competition. No doubt you have to put more emphasis on certain skills (i.e. stage planning and reloading) but it's not inherently harder when everyone else has to do the same!! Since we don't shoot "head's up" with limited guys against revolver guys, it doesn't matter. One isn't harder than the next just different. While a limited gun may be easier to reload and hold more bullets, your competition has the same advantage. Now your emphasis is in movement or speed through positions. The emphasis on certain skill sets in a division will challenge you to improve those areas if you are going to be competitive. However, don't get stuck thinking that a certain division by itself will make you a better shooter.

I agree with that, if your primary concern is where you finish compared to others in your class.

So I would definitly agree that shooting SS can be a good way to force yourself to have to shoot and reload well.

I agree with that, if you want to learn to shoot accurately and reload well.

be

[mike cyrwus]

Hopping divisions is a valid way to emphasize different points of the game; I do it once a year now, ss in the fall, back to Lim in the summer.

Just realize that all youre doing is trying to trick yourself into focusing on those different points. I give mad props to those that start shooting Prod and stick with it all the way to M or GM. Mad props!

[Steven Cline]

It depends on how the stages are designed at your local matches too. Around me stages are designed mostly for open and limited so there aren't many tough decisions to make for planning out the stage for a SS shooter. For me it makes SS less interesting until SS season comes along for 2 months out of the year and the stages are designed for SS.

I recently started shooting SS, coming from shooting a G34 in idpa. In SS you have to rehearse the stages really well, most stages ive seen are sutup for limited and open unless your at the single stack nationals. Thats why i like SS more than ony other division, and i can also bounce back and forth from SS to CDP in idpa and take all my procedurals for dropping loaded mags.

Gentlemen:

By USPSA rules, no stage can require more than 9 shots from one position or view. That means that all stages are single stack friendly except when a stage designer goes to extra effort MAKE each array 9 shots. What you usually see are 6 or 8 shot arrays and then movement of about 10' to the next array. If the stage is legal it is Single Stack friendly.

Longer stages are not Single Stack UNFRIENDLY, they are a chance to shine! So the SS shooter did three (or four) reloads to complete that 32 rnd CoF, and the Limited or Open gunner did one reload... and you finished within 3 to 5 seconds of him... you beat him. He knows it and you know it. Doesn't matter what the HF says.

[mikeg1005]

I'm a decent B class shooter in single stack... and I shoot with a lot of limited guys... ranging from REALLY good to barely a D class.

This is the conclusion I have came up with about single stack compared to limited.

It is easier to suck in single stack than it is in limited.

I see sub par limited shooters that shoot "decent" in limited becuase the added mag capacity saves their ass... they'll miss a 6 popper array 4 times, and take three shots at a few of the paper targets... doing this in limited requires you to make an extra mag change, maybe... obviously you won't win/be competitive with the good shooters, but you won't end up at the bottom of the list. Try this same method of missing/extra shots in single stack and you will have a very miserable stage filled with standing reloads and running out of ammo at the wrong places.

Single stack is not more difficult that limited... it just puts more emphasis on good fundamental skills/good reloads, and if you don't have them, you don't have extra mag capacity to mask them... if you can't get your hits the first time, your not going to win... and in addition, 9/10 times fundamental skills being equal... the shooter with the better reload/reload location will win the stage.

People say that single stack requires better break down of stages.. I don't think so... it requires a DIFFERENT type of break down which can be more difficult to visualize if you can't make good reloads/guarentee that you can get 8 hits out of 8 shots on an array.

The way I see it with limited(now I don't shoot, but its my guess), limited allows you to accel in shooting more than single stack could... calling your shots is important in any division, but limited gives you the ability to make up that poor shot without serious impact to the rest of your course of fire, where as with single stack, some stages require exact round count with no room for error. Limited also lets you shift focus from the single stack concept of "if you move, you reload" to focusing on how to move faster, better, see targets faster/shoot them faster.... which I think, if applied correctly can make you A LOT faster.

I also think the expert area of limited is a lot more of a mental game... where as in single stack its having all your mechanics/techincal aspects perfect.

MIke.

Edited June 14, 2011 by mikeg1005

[Rotorwrench]

I've been shooting single stacks in practical competition since I started practical competition with the exception of running production in a match every now and then. I carry a government model, So I compete with a government model. I have often thought about diving into limited because it looks like a hell of a lot of fun, But every time I get that itch I think about the practical aspect of our sport and always shelve the idea. There is no doubt that SS makes me think things out, including the "what ifs", But at the end of the day, I know that I am confident about the sidearm that I carry and in my ability to safely put hits on target with consistent placement. Never loose sight of what the "P" in USPSA stands for.

[pjb45]

I generally shot a lot of Single Stack both in local, A2 and Nationals.

There is very little forgiveness in SS. As mentioned, Limited you can take an extra shoot or 4 and not worry too much about a standing reload. So most SS shooters tend to focus on accuracy because a 2 extra shoots can put you in a deep hurt real fast. For me, it promotes calling my shots. You have to be more risk adverse shooting SS. Case in point, I interviewed Dave S after he won the Mid-Coast (CA) Dual Championship. Both Taran and Mike V were there, shooting SS. Dave summarized his point margin by saying he had an extra two round per mag, and as a result, he was able to go faster knowing he that safety margin.

Reloading a skinny mag requires a lot of practice, as does all divisions. But the mag well is limited in SS. So there is an additional skill set required.

"Hosing" with a SS is pretty hard for me, actually I pretty can not do it. I can however, develop a decent cadence.

Developing a COF strategy for SS can be different than for Limited, especially when the COF has multiple solutions. Some COF have 3 target arrays which can change strategies for the SS while not having an adverse effect on the Limited shooter.

Excellent fundamentals are endemic to excellence in shooting all divisions. Many folks think Taran is a hoser, actually he is an accuracy fiend!

It does not matter, Open, Limited, SS, Prod; accuracy rules.

[MustangGreg66]

I've been experiencing some interesting things as a result of shooting a lot of SS. I've gone back and forth from production to SS a few times, mainly based on which gun I'm going to use in an upcoming larger match, and recently I started shooting 3-gun as well and loading my G34 to full capacity with a +5 base plate. While shooting that gun in practice I found that every time I was moving from one target array to the next I had to stop myself from doing a reload. Everytime I moved I physically wanted to do a reload. I had to tell myself NOT to do one.

I also found myself thinking in 8s. There was a match stage where you had 1-2 targets each through a couple very close viewing ports and at this point I was shooting production (11 in the gun) but still thinking in 8s. I did an extra reload when I would have had enough rounds and a very short transition had I skipped the reload.

Now I'm only a B class shooter, but I find it hard to go back and forth between guns. I've been shooting production again for a few months and I'm just now starting to think in 10s and with the limited capacity, it fills my itch to reload every time I move. I also feel I can push a little faster and find myself missing occasionally on small plates when I try to rush through them. I feel that I have the buffer of a few extra rounds and get sloppy when I don't focus like I should be.

I actually found the SS easier to reload since it had a magwell and I end up flubbing a reload with the glock from time to time. Maybe it's a matter of practice, having shot the SS for longer and coming back to the Glock after a while...

[trevoro]

I try to shoot every division but Open at least once a year. I jump divisions all the time and shoot other people's guns almost as much as I shoot my own. "Familiarity" with one gun didn't make a bit of difference for me, and I don't think the gun or the division matters much. All guns seem to have triggers, and sights that line up the same way.

What made me a better shooter was shooting with and talking to better shooters. I've told this story before, but I remember the first time I saw a local GM shoot a classifier. My jaw dropped, and I said to him, "There is no way I can shoot it that fast." All he said was, "Yes you can." I ended up shooting it within a second of him that day on a reshoot. Those sights were moving faster than I'd ever seen before, and I only saw the sights on target for a few of the shots, but I got the idea that mortals like me might actually be able to SEE sights at those speeds.

Eventually I learned to see the sights at that speed, and it was time to bump the speed again. I'm still not as fast as him, but I'm getting close. I even hit what I shoot at most of the time.

The only reason that didn't happen for me while shooting Single Stack is because there were no top level shooters in that division at the time. If I could have come up with an excuse to justify why I could never shoot as fast as that GM, I would have; and I never would have believed it possible to shoot that fast myself. So, I got in the division where the best shooters were and got my ass kicked until I learned to see the sights at speed. I had the basics. What I didn't have was a belief that basics can be applied at warp speed where no basics seemed to live. The more I shot with better shooters, the more I started to believe that they weren't getting hits with point shooting and sheer talent.

The short version: the division isn't going to teach anything; it is the people in the sport who do the teaching. So get your M buddy to come play in Single Stack!

[smoothdraw]

I think i'm getting better shooting my glock with trigger reset than my 1911 that if faster to shoot with trigger slapping. I believe that shooting sigle stack will not necessary make you a better shooter but if you can shoot well the 1911 platform compared to others then go for it. Do what works best for you.

Godd luck Bro.