Conversion Kit or Pistol

[Crazy Scientist]

I've been looking into a 22 conversion for one of my pistols, but can't decide if I should just spring for a 22 pistol.

Any pros/cons or each?

I'm looking at a kit for a beretta 96 or 1911 to practice my trigger pull--I am definitly "jerking" the trigger and just need more rounds downrange to work on sight picture (I just learned about both eyes open) and trigger pull.

But if I had a conversion kit, I could use the same pistol I plan to use for competition. Anyone have input which way to go?

[59Bassman]

I have both an old Ruger Mk 1 and a Kimber conversion for my SS pistol. I've now put about 800 rounds through the conversion (got it for Christmas).

My observation is that the conversion kit has made a bigger difference for me than the separate pistol. However, it may be partly due to the novelty of it - I am shooting more just because it's new, and it's neat. However, I have noticed a dramatic increase in my accuracy with the .45 top end on the pistol since I started shooting the .22 top end.

I will also say that after you've put 350 rounds downrange through the gun as a .22, the first time you pull the trigger on the .45 again you will experience "Shock and Awe". Pretty interesting feeling.

I believe that the conversion kit is like dry fire with feedback. You're practicing trigger control, sight alignment, followthrough - all of the basic fundamentals. But you're getting more detailed feedback than dry fire provides (because you really see what your feelings result in for accuracy). I also think you're getting feedback that full-caliber firing has a harder time providing - particularly on the followthrough. I find it easier to watch the sights during recoil with the .22 than I do with the .45.

I also believe that TOO much emphasis on the .22 can be detrimental. Shooting is a package of skills put together, and one of them is controlling the body's response to recoil. Too much dry fire or .22 fire without full-caliber fire interspersed will (IN MY OPINION ONLY) leave you missing a piece of the puzzle.

I liken this to when I was learning to play guitar. I was concerned with how I sounded, and I did not want to disturb my room-mates. So I played a solidbody electric guitar unplugged - no amplifier. It turns out you really can hear what you're doing on the guitar that way, and you learn to play cleanly. I got to the point where I rarely plugged the guitar in.

But as I progressed, I learned that that style of learning caused problems for me. Playing unplugged caused me to develop a very heavy, percussive attack with my right hand - due to trying to make it louder and easier to hear. Also, a significant part of playing an electric guitar is in the interaction of the guitar with the amplifier. When playing unplugged, I learned how to play the guitar, but I never learned how to play the amp.

Sorry for the long offtopic - I guess what I'm trying to say is I like my conversion kit. It's added a lot to my practice. But it's not a total substitute for shooting full caliber, nor is it a total substitute for dry fire. Balance in all things.

[Bob DuBois]

I had a Kimber 22 top end that I put on my 45. I'd shoot the 45 then run a couple hundred 22's. I found I couldn't control the 45 when going back from the 22 so I sold it.

I enjoy shooting 22's and don't have this problem when shooting a dedicated 22, Ruger Mark 2 or my 617.

For the price a good 22 top end you can purchase a Ruger 22/45 or a Buckmark. Magazines would be cheaper and in some cases the pistol would run better than a conversion.

22's in Steel Challenge are a real blast!

[Joe4d]

depends on your goal, Generally the ciener and marvel conversions are reliable and accurate enough for practice and trigger time. They still dont really cut it in serious rimfire competition where Rugers and Brownings rule the day. Some of the conversions require premium rimfire ammo to run reliably which kinda defeats the purpose of cheap practice. Several years ago the answer I came up with was I could buy a hole truckload of cast bullets, primers and powder for the cost of a Ruger 22/45, nowadays with bullets $100 per k and primers $25 per k and the .22 pistols still the same price I may have to rethink that.

[jsa]

I'm shooting a advantage arms 22 conversion kit on my glock 17 it's good for trigger control,grip and sight picture .

Because the 17 is only a 9mm there is not to much of a difference in the price of the ammo because you have to use

premium 22 ammo . The disadvantages are that sometimes the conversion kit jams on ejection.In my opinion its good for training

not competition, also less 9mm to reload.

John

[Stony Lane]

I really like the Beretta conversion kit. I replaced the rear sight with a Novak just like my Elite II. The kits are now "out of stock" and hard to find. You might try a search on the Beretta Forum. (around $400.)

When practicing, I sometimes lose concentration/get tired and start to hit low left. That's when I get the conversion out and get back on track. Later, when I switch back to centerfire, I'm right on. You could do the same thing with dryfire, but (as mentioned by someone above) you get better feedback with the .22.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Stony Lane

[amaziah]

The conversion kit lets you practice your 1911 skills cheaply. You are shooting your main pistol with the .22 conversion so you are getting practice with the same trigger, gun feel, sight picture etc......with "reduced loads." It's all good.

With s .22 ruger mark 1 for example the feel is totally different i.e. trigger, weight, feel, sight picture etc...

For getting practice with you "main" weapon the kit is great.

I recommend any 1911 over the Beretta 96. I am biased I like the 1911 and would use a Beretta 96 as a boat anchor if they would just make it a few ounces heavier. I would also recomend any other 9mm like a glock over the 96.

I greatly recommend any 1911 over a Beretta 96. I have owned many 1911/2011 pistols and 1 Beretta 96. I have been happy with all of the 1911/2011 pistols and not satisfied with the 96. I guess I am biased.

Edited January 31, 2011 by amaziah

[Sam]

Crazy Sci, Love that handle. I've known a couple of crazy scientists and one mad chemist. Fun guys to shoot with.

Anyway, I've been using a Colt Ace conversion for about two decades. It has the old "floating chamber", that simulates a bit of recoil. It's a useful help for me. It gobbles up cheap .22 ammo and doesn't jam or misfire if I keep it clean. It allows me to shoot thousdands of rounds each year, that I wouldn't be able to shoot otherwise. Plus, the time savings of not reloading those thousands is also nice. But, I still shoot hundreds of full power centerfire loads everytime I practice.

The type of practice you are planning will determine the type of pistol or conversion you will need. I like the Ace because it is a 1911. I keep it mounted on a Springfield Series 70 frame with a 3 lb trigger, just like my other 1911s. Trigger control is an important part of my practice, so the Ace works for me. Plus, the slide cycles! That is something the fixed barreled .22s don't do. So, the sights track in a similar manner to my other 1911 guns.

Another option might be to buy one of the high quality gas operated Air Soft pistols. On the gas operated guns, the triggers can be manageable and the slides do cycle. I have one of these too, and I use it often. (Especially when it is -15 degrees outside like it is right now.)

[kevin c]

If you are planning to compete, I would recommend a conversion for the gun you use in competition, recognising that there will be differences beyond the cost of ammo and the change in recoil.

First, the conversion you get may not closely match your competition gun. For instance, I use G34's and G35's in competition, but the only Glock conversion available is the G17.

Second, the gun will likely balance differently in your hand. The 22 LR has a very light slide (this goes even more so for Air Soft gas blow back pistols). Between the shorter length, the lighter weight of the gun plus ten round mag with its dinky cartridges and my G35 with ten rounds of 180 gr ammo, there's a huge difference that needs compensating for.

I find, for instance, that on speed draws, if I practice first with the 22 and then switch to the G34 or G35, I will break my first shots low because I haven't adjusted to the weight of the new gun yet.

Still, it's trigger time, and with the trigger and receiver of your match gun, so that's to the good.

Have fun, whatever your choice!

[Delray]

I use a marvel .22 conversion on a wilson combat based 1911 and really like it. Like the others have said above the feel and weight are a little different but you cant beat the cost of ammo or the trigger on a custom gun.

[kreativecid]

We went with the GSG 1911 22LR. Don't have a lot of rounds through it yet, but the reviews were good and it's a lot of fun and gun for the money.

[GSH]

I also use a marvel conversion over a custom built Caspian 1911 frame. The combination shoots federal ammo well $75.00 per 1000.

Scott

[Golden Bear]

Get a conversion kit(s). You get the same trigger, same manual of arms from your regular competition gear (change the sights to match your competition guns). The Ruger 22/45 is VERY similar to at a M1911, but different.

I've got an Advantage Arms conversion for my Glock, and a practice kit for my Beretta 92 (looking at the current scarcity, I'm glad I got it when I did). I've fired thousands of rounds through those pistols, and a nearly equivalent number of rounds through each conversion kit. Every 22LR "practice" round saves me money (which gets spent on either more full-power ammo, or more 22LR).

Practice more, and get feedback.

[peteinct]

Crazy Scientist,I bought a Kadet Kit (22 upper) for my CZ 75 which I generally shoot for plate matches. It is accurate enough and reliable enough that I use it for my 22 action matches. Having the same gun really helps my muscle memory toget a consistant draw and first shot. It works with federal ammo not just the expensive stuff. My last pistol purchase was a 22 S+W revolver. I have a ruger markII but the grip angle is a little different and it isn't any more reliable.

I think low cost practice is where its at. Once the weather warms up some I try to shoot once a week and that can really add up. Also some club indoor rangrs around here are 22 only.

Pete

[vluc]

For practicing this game, a conversion kit is fine, and I have an AA for my Glock. When I tried using it to shoot an indoor .22 league, I found myself woefully disadvantaged so I bought a buckmark to play that game. Much better.

[pjb45]

There is another thread on conversion kits on this forum.

At first I used a Browning Buckmark. My friends have Rugers .22/45. The Browning was fine but really does not compare to have a conversion unit.

I had a Marvel and sold it. I use a Tactical Solutions upper on my 1911 and SV wide body. I also have another rail for the C-More when I put it on the guns. This way I can practice both Limited/Single Stack/Open.

The conversion kit allows you use the same grip and fire controls as your match gun. It facilitates learning the fundamentals faster because your are focusing on the fundamentals without regard for recoil manangement (another fundamental but it requires match ammo) and you can put more rounds down range at a far cheaper price.

The conversion kit allowed me to jump skill levels in my shooting.

I rarely practice with the .22 and .40 in the same session. I usually try to get one .22 session in a week with match ammo on Friday's session. If you do both start with the match ammo otherwise recoil management from .22 to .40 is a major distraction.

You can really dial in your technique using a .22 but it has to be the right conversion unit. The cleaning of the Marvel required a new sighting in session, the TS does not. This is because the Marvel uses the guide rod to snug the upper to the receiver. The TS was used my many at the Steel Challenge.

[bigstick0000]

I have a ruger MK III with a tactical solutions barrel and a c-more set up for open division for steel. I also have an open gun set up for 38 supercomp and shoot both guns on our steel matches. I have never had a problem with switching from 22 to 38 which is what I do at steel matches. My 22 is an awesome running gun and smooth as can be. At first I had a real problem getting my mags to function properly and then polished my mag lips and they are flawless now.

[Erik S.]

I had a Kimber 22 top end that I put on my 45. I'd shoot the 45 then run a couple hundred 22's. I found I couldn't control the 45 when going back from the 22 so I sold it.

*snip*

That's why you never shoot both the .22 and .45 in the same range session. I think there was another thread where the detrimental effects of this are discussed. Of course, this only applies when you're essentially treating both the .22 and .45 as the same gun for practice purposes. (i.e. .22 top end)

[Nite Ryder]

I have two Ruger MkII's and two Ruger 22/45 (early models) that I've been shooting for sometime. One of the early model 22/45's has a Valquartsen upper on it with a red dot sight. These four pistols use two different styles of magazines, and aren't all that great to change if you happen to be using them in any kind of a timed match. I had a Kimber Rim-fire Target pistol that was made out of a light alloy, it was a worthless piece of junk, looked nice but didn't feed well. At the last gunshow I bought a Kimber 22LR conversion upper for one of my 1911's, it is far and away better than the Kimber Rim-fire Target. I've shot it quite a bit, no jams, it's becoming one of my favorites. The pistol with the red dot sight is so accurate you can hit a dime sized target dot at 20-25 yards all day long if you don't hurry your shots. I can't do that with the open sights on the 1911 with the 22 conversion. I haven't noticed a problem when switching back to the 45, however I just used one of my other 45 1911's instead of actually using that particular 1911.

[jaggy13]

I have a conversion for 1911.

being left handed its really nice having my same grips and controls.

It's great for draw practice... but I don't trust it enough to shoot steel challenge with.

[SeaTact]

I bought a Tactical Solutions kit for my Glock 17. Been worth it for me. This may be posted elsewhere, but there's a good article on the pros and cons:

http://pistol-training.com/archives/2302

[Downrange58]

If you are planning to compete, I would recommend a conversion for the gun you use in competition, recognising that there will be differences beyond the cost of ammo and the change in recoil.

First, the conversion you get may not closely match your competition gun. For instance, I use G34's and G35's in competition, but the only Glock conversion available is the G17.

Second, the gun will likely balance differently in your hand. The 22 LR has a very light slide (this goes even more so for Air Soft gas blow back pistols). Between the shorter length, the lighter weight of the gun plus ten round mag with its dinky cartridges and my G35 with ten rounds of 180 gr ammo, there's a huge difference that needs compensating for.

I find, for instance, that on speed draws, if I practice first with the 22 and then switch to the G34 or G35, I will break my first shots low because I haven't adjusted to the weight of the new gun yet.

Still, it's trigger time, and with the trigger and receiver of your match gun, so that's to the good.

Have fun, whatever your choice!

Hi Kevin! I am probably a month or so away from going in this direction, so it would be fun to talk and learn more about it from you soon. Cheers, Kent

[JerryShoots]

I run the Kimber kit on my 1911's. There are a few quirks but it's great practice. A full power mainspring and CCI minimags runs mine flawlessly but once I drop down below a 20# spring I get lite strikes aplenty.

Consider the tactical solutions kit as well. It's more money but it locks open when it's empty which is nice.

Ciener kits are good too. Skip the Ace kit it's a headache to get running. You almost have to build it a dedicated lower.

The ultimate kit is the Marvel if you can get your hands on one.