CZ parts breakage-- maintenance intervals

[jh9]

After doing some substantial reading on the subject (which is pretty sparse, though the post here was helpful) I'm still left with some questions. While there's plenty of people doing some hand waving about breakage, doom, etc, it seems the biggest issues are trigger return spring, slide stop and extractor.

The CZ Custom shop catalogs a different (improved?) trigger return spring. Has anyone tried these out at high round count intervals?

The slide stops "break." Would anyone that's experienced this care to comment further? Is it a sudden, catastrophic failure or is it something that could possibly be identified by preventative maintenance / inspection?

The extractor doesn't seem to have a lot of complaints of actual breakage, but it does need to be removed in order to clean the recess its seated in. There's also some complaints about the extractor spring being too light. Again, CZ Custom has a replacement spring.

I suppose I'm curious. Is it possible, with some judicious preventative maintenance, to get glock-levels of reliability out of the CZ platform?

I hit a wall with my current Production/Limited Minor/SSP blaster, and I'd like to try something else for a bit to get out of the rut. The CZ seems a likely candidate, but I'd like to go into it knowing what the warts are (and, ideally, how to deal with them).

[Philo_Beddoe]

After doing some substantial reading on the subject (which is pretty sparse, though the post here was helpful) I'm still left with some questions. While there's plenty of people doing some hand waving about breakage, doom, etc, it seems the biggest issues are trigger return spring, slide stop and extractor.

The CZ Custom shop catalogs a different (improved?) trigger return spring. Has anyone tried these out at high round count intervals?

The slide stops "break." Would anyone that's experienced this care to comment further? Is it a sudden, catastrophic failure or is it something that could possibly be identified by preventative maintenance / inspection?

The extractor doesn't seem to have a lot of complaints of actual breakage, but it does need to be removed in order to clean the recess its seated in. There's also some complaints about the extractor spring being too light. Again, CZ Custom has a replacement spring.

I suppose I'm curious. Is it possible, with some judicious preventative maintenance, to get glock-levels of reliability out of the CZ platform?

I hit a wall with my current Production/Limited Minor/SSP blaster, and I'd like to try something else for a bit to get out of the rut. The CZ seems a likely candidate, but I'd like to go into it knowing what the warts are (and, ideally, how to deal with them).

I had a trigger return spring break, replaced it with the stronger custom shop version and no problems since with countless trigger pulls.

Never had any other problems with my CZ's

[ck1]

I came over from the darkside kind of knowing that if the CZ didn't run similarly to what I was used to I'd be getting rid of it regardless of whether or not I shot it better... Well, that was a couple months ago and I'm still shooting the CZ and actually have traded off or sold a bunch of my Glock stuff for CZ stuff.

I've put 3000rds through my SP-01 without a single bobble cleaning it for real only once in that time, and I shoot it way better than I ever did the Glock, I'm pretty happy.

Like you, I looked into what to look out for and have planned accordingly, so in my range bag along with tge usual stuff tgese days you'll find; an extra trigger-return-spring, an extra slide-stop, an extra-power extractor spring, a JIC slightly heavier hammer-spring and an extra extractor as well as a couple punches, phillips , small hammer, etc. - hope for the best, plan for the worst, but if the CZ has to eat a few small odds and ends to do what it does I'll live with it as I've never shot/ran a better gun.

[Z-man]

The only problems I had (after 30-40K rounds) was trigger return springs, CZ Competition rear sights (breaking in half), and one slide stop. There was no way to know the slide stop was going to break. I made sure that before every major match (or around 3k rounds) I broke the gun down and replaced all the springs. I also checked the slide stop to see if there was excessive wear or any bending. Anything that looked too worn or bent got replaced. I replaced the extractor every 7-10k rounds (though I never had a problem). The CZ's work fine if you keep on top of the maintenance and make sure your springs are fresh.

[burningsquirrels]

a couple people i talked to replace the slide stop once a season. i have two seasons on mine. did 3k first season and 7k this season. i'll probably change it when i feel like it. one friend of mine broke his slide stop and didn't know it until he went to clean it after a match, lol. he had at least two years of active shooting, about or more active than me?

the extractor.... the reliability there is keeping it clean. i have about 7k this year and cleaned it twice. it depends on how clean your load is i guess. the extra power extractor springs can help correct a problem where the extractor slips off the rim of the brass, but that is better corrected by working the extractor. it's best not to use that spring unless you really have bad extraction problems (read: all the time). i wouldn't worry about that unless your gun was leaving brass in the chamber. otherwise, clean regularly. i cleaned my gun 4 times this year (field strip, wipe down, spray lube, couple patches thru the barrel), but only removed the extractor twice.

[blind bat]

Pretty much what burningsquirrels said.

Dirty extractors cause more problems than anything else on these pistols.

The slide stop thing is overblown. Buy one and toss it in your range bag. I bet you'll probably never need to replace it. I haven't broken a trigger spring the close to 10k rounds and lots of dry fire. I have, however, launched the little sucker across my garage multiple times doing trigger work and cleaning. It's probably not a bad idea to change the main, trigger and firing pin spring as a set every few years but that could be said of any pistol.

[burningsquirrels]

touching up on it a tad more...

i keep a toothpick in my mini tool kit next to the front sight FO and other misc crud. it's easy to inspect the dirt that's just sitting on the extractor looking at it from the top just ahead of the breech. i'll knock it out with that toothpick with one touch. i did that a couple times this year.... a couple.

i had one extraction problem this year. i think it was brass splitting since all my brass are pickups. i had to grab the slide and ram the frame from behind mid stage. lost maybe 5-6 seconds on it, doh. just lost 2nd A by a hair at NC state on it too. but that was probably brass to get stuck like that, doh.

[The Antichrome]

2010 Nationals, stage 18, 5th shot fired; my extractor broke, it had 12k rounds on it.

MHop from CZ-USA helped me fix it and get back in the match. I've never broken a slide stop, but I carry a spare, and I use the 'improved' version from CZ-Custom.

My mainspring, trigger return spring (again, the improved version) and firing pin spring get replaced each winter...just under 15k rounds.

Matt Mink suggested a 10k respring cycle (and extractor replacement)

I beat the heck out of my Shadow. I dont baby it.

Carry some spares, keep your springs fresh and lube it till it drips.

[burningsquirrels]

+1 on what antichrome said. people gawk at how filthy my gun is but it runs and drips of lube.

i wish CZ custom sold an annual respring maintenance package. adding up all the little springs suck.

[pevadijk]

I'm on my 4th CZ and have been shooting CZ's on/off for about 20 years and I don't think you need to worry about problems.

If you keep the gun lubed and clean the extractor on a regular basis, it just keeps running.

I've never broken a slide stop (although I have a spare one, just in case) and I've broken 2 trigger springs so far.

I've installed the solid trigger pin that Angus sells and if the trigger spring breaks, I'll replace it: I don't think you can predict it's faillure.

On one pistol I've shot about 20k rounds and nothing broke and on my stainless 75B the trigger spring broke within 1k......

Here in Europe CZ's are very common (and cheap!) and at my gunclub we have several as 'club guns' for new shooters and slide stops don't break that often.

They digest about 500 shots per week and last about 4-5 years and finally the slide will crack under the ejection port. If that happens we replace all the pistols and we don't have to worry for a few years ;-)

Edited November 10, 2010 by pevadijk

[WARDOG]

I broke my trigger spring at close to 8000 rds, witnessed my teammate calling for stop after the "load and make ready" command.

We all saw half of slide stop falling on dirt when he was chambering a round, I examined closely it after he swapped a new slidestop. To me seemed that the thing is cast (MIM) with a superficial hardening, the inside was very porous, greyish with white spots.

It's a pity that I did not had a camera with me, and my teammate tossed the thing away and can't remember where.

If he find it I will post pics.

Surely the sp01 is a more finicky gun than a glock, It's a PITA to clean, but I shoot it much better than my old G34.

[Walküre]

I've yet to break anything on my CZs, and that includes a .40 TS that's been run with recoil springs as light as 9#.

Dirty extractors are definitely a thing to watch for - the extractors on my CZs seem to accumulate crud faster than any of my other guns. I had some FTE problems with my TS back in May; pulled the extractor, thoroughly cleaned everything, and it was as good as new.

To me seemed that the thing is cast (MIM) with a superficial hardening, the inside was very porous, greyish with white spots.

Casting and MIM are two completely different manufacturing processes. Most CZ parts are cast (including the frames; the short-rails are the only steel-framed 75-series guns I'm aware of with forged frames). And voids can happen; QC serves to minimize the voids that occur and hopefully catch any parts that do have too high of a void percentage before they leave the factory, but sometimes a bad part gets through.

[jmbaccolyte]

I do not yet own a CZ, but I have a lot of respect for the platform and am considering buying one. A Shadow in .40 is on my wish list because I have some once fired brass in that caliber. But back to the thread...

1) Could the slide stop failures be because the recoil spring is too weak? I prefer the way a pistol with a slightly soft recoil spring feels when I shoot. But Wolf Gunsprings company recommends that the ejected spent cases first hit the ground three to six feet away from the gun, if I remember correctly and it seems most pistols I watch during shooting, kick them a lot further.

2) Could the slide cracking be from people dropping the slide when the pistol is empty and therefore all of the force is focused on the slide when it slams forward? During normal firing, some energy is subtracted when chambering a new round.

Just theory, but if we run a little stronger recoil spring and ride the slide forward when the magazine has been ejected, maybe we can reduce these particular failures even lower than they are now.

[Walküre]

1) Could the slide stop failures be because the recoil spring is too weak? I prefer the way a pistol with a slightly soft recoil spring feels when I shoot. But Wolf Gunsprings company recommends that the ejected spent cases first hit the ground three to six feet away from the gun, if I remember correctly and it seems most pistols I watch during shooting, kick them a lot further.

No.

My TS is on the original slide stop with no signs of stressing, and it's run literally thousands of loads from 171-180 PF with what many consider to be very light recoil springs. I normally run a 12# in it, but have used both a 10# and an 11# with several coils cut. (That one felt like less spring force than the 10#; probably a 9# equivalent, hence my old comment above.)

Slide stop breakage isn't a CZ-exclusive problem, nor is it all that uncommon across the board. (Not terribly common, but certainly not unheard of by any stretch. I carried a spare slide stop for my SS 1911 long before I started carrying around CZ slide stops, all just-in-case, and none ever used.)

2) Could the slide cracking be from people dropping the slide when the pistol is empty and therefore all of the force is focused on the slide when it slams forward? During normal firing, some energy is subtracted when chambering a new round.

No.

If that were the case, I have a feeling that lots of us would have cracked slides. Also, the force returning to battery isn't going to be squat when compared to the force that takes it out of battery (that is, recoil). Plus, the slide isn't striking much of anything when returning to battery. (Again, compared to possibly striking the frame in recoil.)

Edited May 2, 2012 by Walküre

[Paul Burtchell]

+1 on what antichrome said. people gawk at how filthy my gun is but it runs and drips of lube.

i wish CZ custom sold an annual respring maintenance package. adding up all the little springs suck.

+1

[burningsquirrels]

+1 on what antichrome said. people gawk at how filthy my gun is but it runs and drips of lube.

i wish CZ custom sold an annual respring maintenance package. adding up all the little springs suck.

+1

the problem is that nobody can agree as to what belongs in an annual maintenance package.

perhaps if they just did a discount code that ran nov-feb good for small parts orders only.

[Jediwarrior]

Hello, I would like to give my opinion on the broken slide stop. I owned a CZ-75 long time ago, but own 2 Tanfoglios now. Looking at the design, I noticed that the barrel, after recoiling, would impact the slide stop pin, absorbing the full momentum of the barrel. This is one of a few pistol designs that does this. Another one is the Kahr.

On the 1911 design, and 98% of pistols out there, the barrel impacts the receiver. The slide stop does absorb to forward momentum of the barrel and slide, but is much less compare to the rearward recoil of the barrel.

There is a tremendous amount of stress that is applied on the slide stop of the CZ, especially if the barrel had a compensator attached (added weight had added momentum). The slide stop on the CZ absorbs both rearward and forward momentum. So, this is one of the spare parts that you should always on hand. I do carry spares for my Tanfoglios.

To answer the question, the weight of the recoil spring does very little, if any, to the longevity of the slide stop on the CZ. The weight of the recoil spring does not minimize the rearward impact of the barrel to the slide stop. I have read somewhere to use a lighter recoil spring to minimize to forward impact of the slide and barrel, but this goes against the logic of using the correct weight of the RS to minimize the impact of the slide on the receiver.

I use a heavier RS on my Tanfoglio to prolong the life of the slide, and for faster cycling. One way to tell if the RS is too weak is to "feel" if the slide remains to the rear too long, meaning when the slide contacts the receiver, it stays there slightly longer before it begins to move forward. Kinda hard to explain, but you can somehow feel it. Of course, the distance of the ejected shell is another criteria of the weight of the RS.

Please comment if this makes sense.

[CZinSC]

My slide stop ( SP01 ) broke during a stage at the AL Sectional this year. "Finished" the stage with 4 FTE's and 11 Mikes. Whose fault was it? Mine of course. I have heard about the slide stops breaking, just never got around to replacing it. Mine had about 15-20K on it. It's a $34 part. Most people have an extra in their parts kit, like I did, which keeps you in the match. But your chance of doing well in the match is pretty much over when it happens.

What you should do, is replace it before it happens. I am going to start replacing mine every 10K rounds. Overkill? Maybe. But after all the practice we do, the match fees, hotel costs, gas to get there...is $34 a year really asking a lot? You decide. My two cents is replace it before it breaks.

[HotLoad]

i wish CZ custom sold an annual respring maintenance package. adding up all the little springs suck.

+1 for this idea

[blueorb]

I just ordered a CZ 75 Shadow Line. Will be at my FFL on Friday. After reading this thread I had Stuart include a spare extractor, extracor spring, slide stop and TRS.

Little early, maybe? Yes. But, like CZinSC said, I don't want a match go to crap because of a cheap part.

[Neomet]

This is what I do with both of my CZs to fix the perceived slide stop issue. I have two slide stops for each gun. One that I use in practice and local matches. The other I use exclusively for upscale matches. I replaced the practice one in my TS once. Never had one break and I have 60K plus through my TS. Much less in my Shadow.

[djcantr]

Good thread. Picked up some good stuff.

What exactly happens when your slide stop breaks in the middle of a stage?

[MstngLX50]

I bought this kit. You can sell off some of the parts you don't need.

http://shop.cz-usa.com/P-10999/Spare-Parts-Kit-Sp01-Shadow.aspx

So far I've only needed a basepad, an extractor, and trigger return spring out of it.

At a minimum I'd suggest having a couple trigger springs on hand.

http://shop.cz-usa.com/P-0420013001/Trigger-Spring-7585.aspx

[motosapiens]

On the 1911 design, and 98% of pistols out there, the barrel impacts the receiver. The slide stop does absorb to forward momentum of the barrel and slide, but is much less compare to the rearward recoil of the barrel.

Can you tell me why you think the rearward recoil of the barrel is greater than the forward impact?

It seems to me that the slide is decelerating as it goes to the rear and is at minimum velocity when it impacts the slide stop. I know that if I go below a certain charge, the slide no longer even moves all the way to the rear (fails to lock back) and if i go lower than that it stops feeding correctly. OTOH, on the way forward, the slide is accelerating, and is at maximum velocity when it hits the slide stop.

[CZinSC]

Good thread. Picked up some good stuff.

What exactly happens when your slide stop breaks in the middle of a stage?

For me, at the time it happened I had no idea what went wrong. The slide was slightly out of battery, and I could see a case in the barrel. Didn't know if it was live or fired, so the RO was not letting me leave the bay with it like that, so I had to fix it. The slide would not budge...not one bit. It was as if someone had welded the slide to the frame. As they say, hindsight is 20-20, I didn't realize the slide stop was sticking slightly out of the right side, like it normally does, and on the left side it was about 1/4" away from the frame (not normal). It did not dawn on me until later that those two things couldn't happen at the same time!

What i finally was able to do was tap on the barrel hood with a hammer which disengaged the barrel lugs. At that point i was able to push the slide stop back in and rack the slide. The case that was in the barrel was empty. With the gun cleared I was able to go to the safe area. At that point, I had to pull the half of slide stop out of the left side, and if I remember correctly I had to push the broken piece out the right side.