P.E. Kelley Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 The "pop-up" targets were rather neat. Hanging from the harness felt silly. It's all good. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truegent2004 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 The "pop-up" targets were rather neat. Hanging from the harness felt silly. +1 Having the circulation to my groin area cut off with the parachute harness wasn't a thrill....but hey trigger time is trigger time and AZ weather in March beats Minnesota's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Did they change the shooting schedule so now everybody is at the range all day on both Firday and Saturday or am I just imagining I read that somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 What stage do we need the Big Knife for Mr Slade? Lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Did they change the shooting schedule so now everybody is at the range all day on both Firday and Saturday or am I just imagining I read that somewhere? It says on the website on the front page that it's full day of shooting both Friday and Saturday...so you did read it somewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) Did they change the shooting schedule so now everybody is at the range all day on both Firday and Saturday or am I just imagining I read that somewhere? It says on the website on the front page that it's full day of shooting both Friday and Saturday...so you did read it somewhere! Well yeah, but shooting has always gone on all day its just that as a competitor you only shot 1/2 day each day. One day you shot in the morning and the oter day you shot in the afternoon. Edited March 15, 2011 by TMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Polle's email explains the schedule. Shoot every other hour, all day fri & sat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Yep, they have figured out (along with most other big matches) that the 1/2 day format for 3gun is just too much... 5-6 hours of frantic prep and shooting, then stop. (or vis) Better is to; shoot a stage, prep for the next (and watch the squad in front of yours), shoot a stage, etc, but you are at the range all day, which I don't find to be a problem...much rather be at the range all day. Their earily/late format consists of start at 0645 or 0800 (there abouts) and shoot all day. The next day you start at the opposite time and go all day... jj Edited March 16, 2011 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Well jj I perfer the old way. I don't have a problem shooting 4 or 5 stages one right after the other, been doing that way down there for 8 years. I like having one day that I can get up a bit later and not have to rush through breakfast to get to the range and one day to hit the sporting goods stores around Mesa in the after noon. With the new format there will be twice as many cars in the parking lots because instead of 4 squads on the pistol bays you'll have 7-8, the ones shooting and the ones waiting. You'll have 4 squads on 10 and 11 instead of 2 so that little hole will be jammed up. The long range stages and 8 and 9 won't be a big deal for parking but it will be a longer walk for some. I'm just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Yup. I prefer the old way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Well jj I perfer the old way. I don't have a problem shooting 4 or 5 stages one right after the other, been doing that way down there for 8 years. I like having one day that I can get up a bit later and not have to rush through breakfast to get to the range and one day to hit the sporting goods stores around Mesa in the after noon. With the new format there will be twice as many cars in the parking lots because instead of 4 squads on the pistol bays you'll have 7-8, the ones shooting and the ones waiting. You'll have 4 squads on 10 and 11 instead of 2 so that little hole will be jammed up. The long range stages and 8 and 9 won't be a big deal for parking but it will be a longer walk for some. I'm just sayin yer right, todd-parking will be a mess...drag bag time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Is this for 3 Gun Nation or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 haven't noticed parking problems in the past 2 years with the all day system... half days work for pistol matches, not so well for major 3gun matches because of the longer stages and increased prep time... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 haven't noticed parking problems in the past 2 years with the all day system... half days work for pistol matches, not so well for major 3gun matches because of the longer stages and increased prep time... jj The last 8 years I've shot Superstition they have had the 1/2 day shooting schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The last 5 (for me) have all been half day. I really prefer that, at least one day I can sleep late. The hurry up and wait (for a whole stage to finish) would drive me nuts. Certainly not better for most of the shooters.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdpaz Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 That's really cool that some of you can to see into the future and be certain that you don't like the new schedule before you've tried it. Can you tell us the results now also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah. I can. We wait anyway on half day stages. I like sleeping late one morning. You be in Tempe-not exactly a long ride for you. I feel like I'm loading out when I to go RIo for 3Gun. Kind of like you would feel coming to Ft. Benning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 That's really cool that some of you can to see into the future and be certain that you don't like the new schedule before you've tried it. Can you tell us the results now also? I'll try it out before I decide. I think I actually would have a better chance of picking the division winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I like the idea of an all-day schedule. Many of this year's stages will give competitors more than one way of solving the problem, so I think a lot of folks are going to be grateful for the opportunity to watch the previous squad shoot - this schedule gives you that opportunity. It also greatly reduces the chance of one slow stage causing a ripple effect through the rest of the match, which has been a concern in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 It also greatly reduces the chance of one slow stage causing a ripple effect through the rest of the match, which has been a concern in the past. Why? From a stage management perspective, you're still running the same number of shooters through the same number of stages. I wouldn't imagine an RO would even notice the difference. If so it would be very minor. I'm not a big fan of the all day schedule. The half day was one of the things I really liked about SMM3G. Gave me the opportunity to go to Scottsdale Gun Club or Dillon on one afternoon. JJ, as far as parking I hope you weren't talking about the RM3G when you said you haven't noticed parking being an issue. Whittington is a bit different than Rio...just a touch more spread out. Every time I went to Rio there was parking available, but not a ton of parking. I would imagine the full day folks will be doing a lot more walking than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) I stand corrected...looked at last year's match booklet and there it was, big as ever...but it did show that we did do "somewhat" what I was talking about. early squads started at the crack of dawn, shot some stages all in a row, and then one stage after lunch. The other "shift" started with one stage just before lunch, then went all afternoon. So is wasn't really a 1/2 day schedule, more like a 2/3 or 3/4 day schedule... What I was remembering was that we seemed to have to wait for at least one squad to shoot before we were up on just about every stage, supporting the theory that one slow stage causes a ripple effect throughout the entire match as Richard stated. And there have been some "problem stages" in the past... So from the parking aspect, in the past from 10am till 2pm everyone was on the range...I am not remembering any major parking problems thou, at SMM3G. BUT apparently my memory is like a media seperator these days... I whole heartedly support the all day, one on, one off format. Gives you a chance to heckle your buddies in the squad ahead of you, figure out exactly how you want to do the stage without rushing, get prepped, get your gun fixed (IF it broke), or buy something in the vendors tent, which is a BIG reason! support the sponsors!!! etc. 3gun natural terrain matches HAVE to use the one on, one off format (sometimes it takes 1/2 hour to drive to the next stage), and major 3gun matches (espcially with with LONG STAGES) should use it as well. It just makes everything flow better, keeps the vendors/sponsors selling stuff, and keeps everyone closer to on schedule... JMHO anyway, see everyone soon! jj ETA; being able to go shopping off range during a major match is a selling point for the 1/2 day format? really? if ya wanna go shopping, go shopping thursday, I'll be at the range walking the stages... Edited March 17, 2011 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) It also greatly reduces the chance of one slow stage causing a ripple effect through the rest of the match, which has been a concern in the past. Why? From a stage management perspective, you're still running the same number of shooters through the same number of stages. I wouldn't imagine an RO would even notice the difference. If so it would be very minor. I'm not a big fan of the all day schedule. The half day was one of the things I really liked about SMM3G. Gave me the opportunity to go to Scottsdale Gun Club or Dillon on one afternoon. JJ, as far as parking I hope you weren't talking about the RM3G when you said you haven't noticed parking being an issue. Whittington is a bit different than Rio...just a touch more spread out. Every time I went to Rio there was parking available, but not a ton of parking. I would imagine the full day folks will be doing a lot more walking than before. The problem arises when one stage runs over the time slot allotted for a single squad. We do our best to design and staff stages that will run on time, but you never know for sure until you start the the match. Under the half-day regime, the "slow" squad is delayed getting to their next stage, and the next squad gets delayed even more getting to their next stage etc. etc. leading to a significant cumulative backlog. This can mean the ROs having to work through lunch to catch up (which I assure you they WILL notice) and in some cases can even have the last squad of the day shooting in failing light (which has happened to me as a competitor - not cool for 300 yard rifle targets). As for parking, the range at Rio underwent major landscaping in 2010, so there is a lot more parking than in previous years. You may still have to walk a modest distance, but at least you will have an hour to get your heart rate down before you shoot. Edited March 17, 2011 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I stand corrected...looked at last year's match booklet and there it was, big as ever...but it did show that we did do "somewhat" what I was talking about. early squads started at the crack of dawn, shot some stages all in a row, and then one stage after lunch. The other "shift" started with one stage just before lunch, then went all afternoon. So is wasn't really a 1/2 day schedule, more like a 2/3 or 3/4 day schedule... What I was remembering was that we seemed to have to wait for at least one squad to shoot before we were up on just about every stage, supporting the theory that one slow stage causes a ripple effect throughout the entire match as Richard stated. And there have been some "problem stages" in the past... So from the parking aspect, in the past from 10am till 2pm everyone was on the range...I am not remembering any major parking problems thou, at SMM3G. BUT apparently my memory is like a media seperator these days... I whole heartedly support the all day, one on, one off format. Gives you a chance to heckle your buddies in the squad ahead of you, figure out exactly how you want to do the stage without rushing, get prepped, get your gun fixed (IF it broke), or buy something in the vendors tent, which is a BIG reason! support the sponsors!!! etc. 3gun natural terrain matches HAVE to use the one on, one off format (sometimes it takes 1/2 hour to drive to the next stage), and major 3gun matches (espcially with with LONG STAGES) should use it as well. It just makes everything flow better, keeps the vendors/sponsors selling stuff, and keeps everyone closer to on schedule... JMHO anyway, see everyone soon! jj I would argue the point about keeping the sponsors happy. The one on/one off schedule keeps you at the range all day but depending on the layout, doesn't really give you time to spend at the vendor tent. If you have to get there and get back early enough to make sure you don't miss the walk through you've only got 30 min or so in the tent. The layout Rio has used for years with the one stage before and after lunch works great. Gives shooters plenty of time to hit the tent but not really enough to wander too far away. At a range like Rio where the stages are for the most part, next to each other I just don't see a reason to go every other. RM3G, absolutely, only way to do it. Either way, It's Rio's match, they can run it as they see fit. I'm just trying to figure out how this schedule would have any effect on a stage that's running behind. You're still gonna have squads backed up waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 The problem arises when one stage runs over the time slot allotted for a single squad. We do our best to design and staff stages that will run on time, but you never know for sure until you start the the match. Under the half-day regime, the "slow" squad is delayed getting to their next stage, and the next squad gets delayed even more getting to their next stage etc. etc. leading to a significant cumulative backlog. This can mean the ROs having to work through lunch to catch up (which I assure you they WILL notice) and in some cases can even have the last squad of the day shooting in failing light (which has happened to me as a competitor - not cool for 300 yard rifle targets). Sorry I'm not buying that. Unless you're planning on having squads jump ahead, which is a recipe for disaster, you're still going to have the exact same backlog. Whether it's squad 1, 2, 3, and 4, or 1, 3, 5, 7. You're still scheduled to occupy that bay with shooters, the whole match. The only issue would be potentially from shooters taking too long to get to the stage and leaving it open and without shooters. I just don't remember that being an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Richard's right. Picture this... Stage 1, long stage, whatever reason...didn't see it coming. First squad comes off 1/2 hour behind. They go to their next stage...where the RO's have been waiting...patiently for 1/2 hour. No time to gear up etc. Now Stage 1 is behind AND stage 2. Stage two is right on time, but since they started late, Squad 1 gets to stage 3 late, too!!...NOW stage 3 is behind, too! AND the dominos keep falling. Sometimes, lunch gives people a chance to catch up, sometimes it's not enough time! With the one on, one off...Squad 1 comes off stage 1 a 1/2 hour late. Not due on Stage 2 for another 1/2 hour (or whatever). Squad 12(or whatever...Squad 2 shot it while Squad 1 was on 1, and then the other shift is Squad 12 in this case) is shooting on stage 2. Squad 1 starts Stage 2 on time. If they get out on time...all good! By giving squads the off time to regroup, the alternating squads are almost always ready, unless the back-up is just huge!! Even if the squad gets to a stage a whole time period later than they were supposed to finish their last stage, they're still on time for the new stage! Now stage 1 has the 1/2 hour back-up, but if it was a one time thing, it should be fixed before lunch. If it's a continuous thing, lunch usually catches it up, but all the other stages will be on time. RO's are working their butt off either way. But, in the one where they are all back to back...the RO's end up waiting for the late guys and then rushing to try to get caught up for the stage next to them! That's how it helps with the back-up. It just isolates the problem areas a little better. It's just a different way to do it! The sponsor tent at SMM3G has been struggling. There seem to be less people to buy from and I like to wander through there. Don't know if it will help. As far as parking, we're always at the range all day. I didn't know there were so many people who left the range. I can almost always find anyone I'm looking for...except when they run and hide from me (but they're usually AT the range)! So I think most of the cars have been there all day anyway. I like being a little more relaxed, having time to regear, and not running off one stage, grabbing everyone's sheets and rushing to the next stage without time to see what's going on! I'm looking forward to it...unless they hang me on that dang wall again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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