Open is not fun for me because...

[DyNo!]

I strongly dislike shooting my .38 Super Comp Open gun because after a stage, I'm more focused on finding my brass than shooting the next stage!

Even then, I only find about half of it! I'm shooting nickle plated brass which is a lot easier to find once they are fired but even so, I still lose about half of it.

I'm trying to find a way to enjoy shooting the division I'm good at. Shooting my production gun is more fun primarily because I don't have to worry about getting an ulcer when I can't find a 9mm casing.

Benos members, could you tell me what options I have if I like shooting open but don't like continuously stressing over brass and having my wallet take a beating if I don't?

It seems as if I should move to 9mm major but, here are my thoughts:

I've entertained the thought of a .40 caliber race gun but I'm certain that its recoil would make it uncompetitive (I just moved up to Open A and even shooting titegroup to save money had a negative effect on my shooting). I don't think the increased recoil of .40 will be something I'd like shooting in that class and division. It would also, be cost prohibitive for my budget to have two open guns especially since the one I've got has been running well for a decade straight. I can manage the reduced magazine capacity so that isn't one of my considerations.

I've entertained the thought of converting the gun to 9mm. I've heard that it would cost around $500 . Would I risk blowing myself up if I loaded range brass to 9mm major? If so, I don't see how it would be much better since I'd still have to theoretically buy brass and keep track of it. At least with .38 Super Comp, IF I find the brass and it isn't cracked, I know it is good to go.

Edited August 2, 2010 by DyNo!

[dagger10k]

Have you tried marking your brass? A lot of shooters around here make distinctive marks on their brass with markers. Different bands of colors are the norm. It makes it pretty easy to see, and if other shooters recognize it, they know who it belongs to.

[DyNo!]

Have you tried marking your brass? A lot of shooters around here make distinctive marks on their brass with markers. Different bands of colors are the norm. It makes it pretty easy to see, and if other shooters recognize it, they know who it belongs to.

I didn't specify this but I actually lose the brass. When found, it is identifiable. The ranges I shoot at are covered in brass as if it is the shooting surface. I've been very thorough in searching for it and there isn't any confusion when I find some. It's like looking for a needle in a stack of needles.

The 10 people who shoot .38 Super Comp around here let it lay and that's probably the only reason why I have any left.

Edited August 2, 2010 by DyNo!

[EkuJustice]

Seen one shooter I shot with who had a brass catcher on his hand for his brass.

[Jaxshooter]

I got tired of picking up my 38 SC brass and sold my 2 Open 38 SC guns and had 9mm Major guns built. I don't pick up brass any longer. I load one fired 9mm brass for big matches and range brass for local matches. So far I have not experienced any problems. I have been shooting them for 2+ years.

[DyNo!]

I got tired of picking up my 38 SC brass and sold my 2 Open 38 SC guns and had 9mm Major guns built. I don't pick up brass any longer. I load one fired 9mm brass for big matches and range brass for local matches. So far I have not experienced any problems. I have been shooting them for 2+ years.

It's looking like I might have to do that.

Is reloading range brass for 9mm major dangerous? I've heard that it should not be done if you like your fingers.

I actually have a bond with my open gun so I don't know if I can do that. Might make sense to turn the 38SC brass fund into the 9mm Major Open fund.

[Xfactor]

I strongly dislike shooting my .38 Super Comp Open gun because after a stage, I'm more focused on finding my brass than shooting the next stage!

Even then, I only find about half of it! ...I don't have to worry about getting an ulcer when I can't find a 9mm casing.

...I don't see how [shooting 9 Major] would be much better since I'd still have to theoretically buy brass and keep track of it.

Without delving into a theoretical cost analysis of how it sometimes ends up not being any cheaper to shoot 9 Major (which has already been beaten to death), it sounds to me like the real issue is that you're sick of having to scramble to pick up as much of your brass as possible. I can understand your thoughts on that - that's why I went 9 Major (with no regrets)

[CC712400]

Well, you're lucky in that the other 38SC shooters don't pick up their brass either and most of the lay persons don't make a habit of collecting anything but rifle cases(at least at our home range).

Ignore it during the match, come back later in the week to do a little cleaning of house, and you can probably make up most of your lost stock.

It would mean another trip the range though. What a shame.

Not really a solution for away games though, and brass catchers don't really seem like a viable option.

[foilhat]

Well, you're lucky in that the other 38SC shooters don't pick up their brass either and most of the lay persons don't make a habit of collecting anything but rifle cases(at least at our home range).

Ignore it during the match, come back later in the week to do a little cleaning of house, and you can probably make up most of your lost stock.

It would mean another trip the range though. What a shame.

Not really a solution for away games though, and brass catchers don't really seem like a viable option.

If the range is covered in brass, pick it all up. Get your cases and sell some brass to buy more for your gun.

[JorDanO]

I was in your same shoes last year. It was even affecting my practice because I would only want to stand in one spot to shoot so my brass wouldn't be all over the place. We have a lot of field courses with desert, sandy conditions and I was losing almost all my brass at each match. I decided to go to 9 Major and I'm so glad that I did. I shoot range brass all the time, and don't have to worry about it during a match.

[OPENB]

Cameron, Bob from Ky. 3gun. What's up?

You watched my 9 open gun run, not a single hickup. That gun was originally built as a SuperComp gun, but I got sick of hunting brass. Your prices are about right, if you replace the comp, too. If you keep your comp, you should save $100-$150. So, the conversion pays for itself in 3-4 cases of SC brass. I shoot fired brass from my P.D. range, brass cases for major loads, nickel for minor, just so I don't get them confused. Even if you have to pay retail for fired brass, it is at least half the cost of SC brass. Look for a P.D. in GA. that might still shoot 9mm, and ask if you can scrounge their range, or buy 10,000 online and forget it for a couple years. The myth that their are few powders that make major in 9 safely has been dispelled repeatedly. I am using HS-6 because I got 16#'s of it really cheap, and am shooting it up. I have to clean the gun more often than a Vit. shooter, but that's Ok. I used to use it in SC, too. Silhoette works great too. Don't fear the 9! Just be sure to get SV mags. I have not tried STI mags, but read you have to run spacers. SV's are plug and play.

[CocoBolo]

In this hot weather I just leave the brass lay except 38 Super Comp, I spray mine with Blue Dykem and find most of them depending on the range. The other guys paint them Red. I have 2 9 major tops for my 38 Super Gun, I shoot 9 mm range brass once and leave it lay, its painted Red so I don't pick it up by mistake. I roll all the range brass thru a case pro so my gun runs 100% and no brass problems.

I do a few things that keep me supplied with 38 Super Comp brass.

1. I RO major matches, do not RO with another open shooter, I Ro with a single stack guy he gets the 45's.

2. Set up trade deals with other RO's even before the match.

3. I use a nut roller to pickup brass when I'm in the mood and its abandoned in the match. I get a lot of 38 Super +P, I trade it for Comp, I trade anything I have too much of for Comp. I get enough 9, 40, 45 to keep me supplied and trade the excess.

4. I snag every Starline Certificate I can get my hands on from the prize table.

I bought 1,000 Super Comp two years ago, I still have about 700 of those and more than 5,000 I picked up along the way. Yeah, I be a brass whore.

Since you are shooting comp and if you have a AFTEC all you need to do is get a 9 mm barrel fit and a comp then get a set of SV mags they work 9 or 38 and no stupid spacesrs. Probably closer to 1,000 dollars with the mags. Keep your 38 Super Barrel and Comp in tact so you can shoot it when you like or need to.

Loading 9 Major is no big deal lots of info here on the Forum.

Edited August 2, 2010 by CocoBolo

[shooterbenedetto]

Cameron, Bob from Ky. 3gun. What's up?

You watched my 9 open gun run, not a single hickup. That gun was originally built as a SuperComp gun, but I got sick of hunting brass. Your prices are about right, if you replace the comp, too. If you keep your comp, you should save $100-$150. So, the conversion pays for itself in 3-4 cases of SC brass. I shoot fired brass from my P.D. range, brass cases for major loads, nickel for minor, just so I don't get them confused. Even if you have to pay retail for fired brass, it is at least half the cost of SC brass. Look for a P.D. in GA. that might still shoot 9mm, and ask if you can scrounge their range, or buy 10,000 online and forget it for a couple years. The myth that their are few powders that make major in 9 safely has been dispelled repeatedly. I am using HS-6 because I got 16#'s of it really cheap, and am shooting it up. I have to clean the gun more often than a Vit. shooter, but that's Ok. I used to use it in SC, too. Silhoette works great too. Don't fear the 9! Just be sure to get SV mags. I have not tried STI mags, but read you have to run spacers. SV's are plug and play.

SV mags NOW are not plug and play. Sti mags works just as good and very reliable but can not make 30rds or 24rds?

my STI mags are 22+1 28+1rds.I'm now switching my EAA to 9mm because between picking up brass, ROing, taping and scoring, my shooting really suffers. Shoot 9mm and I know you wont regret. If you have a buddy that will lend you

his gun for a match, take advantage, load your ammo and try it!!

[DyNo!]

It was even affecting my practice because I would only want to stand in one spot to shoot so my brass wouldn't be all over the place.

You are describing me perfectly.

I lose money if I move and shoot, therefore - I should minimize moving and shooting during practice.

It seems so irrational to alter your behavior like this. I swear I've developed some obscure form of OCD.

I'm looking into pricing the conversion of my gun to 9mm major. I'm swimming in 9mm brass and I've never had trouble finding it.

Edited August 2, 2010 by DyNo!

[Chris iliff]

Think your off on the assesment of the .40 in Open. Flyin40 is a master open shooter shooting a .40. I shoot 9 in my open gun. The gun was originally a .38 super and like you, I detested the scrounging for my brass. I'll never go back. Good brass for majors, range pick up or whatever I have for locals. 2 years no problems. It totally irks my Pops that I don't still pick up brass, I like that.

[open17]

Don't discount 40 cal open. You can get it to run soft and flat. REALLY soft and flat.

Another plus is that in a pinch you can run factory ammo and make major--even with the

cheap stuff.

The downside is capacity. You will get 19-20 in a short stick, maybe 25 in a big stick.

So you are giving up 3 to 5 rounds per magazine. But you are already shooting production,

so reloading really fast isn't a problem--right?

[Field]

shooting open seems like a big headache

-your spending the biggest money for a gun

-your spending the biggest money for accessories

-your spending the most time tinkering with the gun and load to get everything working properly

-your most likely to get hit by shrapnel spatter when shooting 38 super or 9mm major

-your laser scope runs out of batteries and you dont have a dot when your shooting a match

somebody let me shoot thier open gun (i think .38 super) a number of months ago and it seemed kind of goofy like i prefered regular iron sights better

maybe im just being a negative nilly ?

Edited August 2, 2010 by Field

[revomodel10]

I strongly dislike shooting my .38 Super Comp Open gun because after a stage, I'm more focused on finding my brass than shooting the next stage!

From my cost perspective,

I live a decent ride away from most clubs I shoot at, I try to focus on shooting, almost never picking up brass. (I will take it, if someone gives it to me!)

In the overall cost of things, it is not important to me.

Here is a quick compare of brass lost to gasoline used on going to matches:

Ave round trip to a match ( based on 200 miles ) TOTAL COST!

19.8 Ave US fleet MPG (Google) $2.74 Ave Price per gal (Google) = $0.14 Ave price per mile traveled ----------- $27.63 based on 200 miles round trip

$124.85 .38 super comp brass Per 1000 $12.49 Per 100 ----------- $12.49 Total lost brass, based on 100 round local match

I live in NE, gas costs more, brass costs the same, & I spent WAY more on GAS than BRASS!

Edited August 2, 2010 by revomodel10

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Get a new barrel and comp fitted in 9mm and don't look back. I switched to open only because of being able to shoot 9mm. I still pick up my brass and even get 90% of it back here but I can buy once fired 9mm all day long. I have loaded some of my once fired brass now 3 times and they still have tight primer pockets and no split cases. I would buy a brass picker/upper thingy to help keep your club clean and also collect all the brass you can. Tumble it and resell to make you some cash for bullets and powder Thanks, Eric

[Team Amish 1]

Go 9!

There are plenty people who can make them run perfect and your brass loss anxiety will be a thing of the past.

I can only speak of my own experience and mileage may vary but I load plenty range brass after checking it thoroughly and checking the primer pocket for tightness. So far, knock on wood, no issues.

[Team Amish 1]

shooting open seems like a big headache

...

maybe im just being a negative nilly ?

Yes, you are!

Just kiddin'.

It's not that bad.

Once you get used to the different feel of the Open gun, it's actually pretty addictive.

Like a fast sports car or bike.

You do have a point with the tinkering, though. Especially the snipe hunt for the elusive "perfect load" seems to follow the motto of "if it ain't broke, improve it till it is".

[GrumpyOne]

This is cheaper than converting your gun to 9mm.....

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=112864

There are many other makes and models out there.

[G-ManBart]

I say go 9....it'll make Supercomp brass that tiny little bit more available for the rest of us (coming from the guy with like 12K stashed).

I have yet to shoot a Major 9 gun (I have one) that feels as good as 38SC or Super. R,

[DyNo!]

Looks like this is the answer:

http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80000849-1194042320

http://shootersconnectionstore.com/Howard-Smith-Steel-9mm-Spacer-P1450.aspx

I have 3 short SVI magazines and a STI big stick. Since I'm shooting Supercomp, I assume all I need is the stuff above and a competent smith to install the barrel?

If so, looks like I'll be shooting the rest of my Supercomp and selling the brass, dies, & comp/barrel to fund it.

Edited August 4, 2010 by DyNo!

[Flyin40]

Don't discount 40 cal open. You can get it to run soft and flat. REALLY soft and flat.

Another plus is that in a pinch you can run factory ammo and make major--even with the

cheap stuff.

The downside is capacity. You will get 19-20 in a short stick, maybe 25 in a big stick.

So you are giving up 3 to 5 rounds per magazine. But you are already shooting production,

so reloading really fast isn't a problem--right?

23+1 in my short sticks and 27+1 in my big sticks for my 40 Open. 26 reloadable in the big sticks.

Wanted to add that these are straight from the factory and untuned mags.

Flyin

Edited August 4, 2010 by Flyin40