bmadsen Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 After watching the video clips of Blake Miguez (especially #2), I was just wondering if I am the only one who thinks the stage designer forgot the D in DVC? Or is this just how most stages look in the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Oh no, here we go again. Yeah, it seems like the trend continues to be towards in your face clumps of targets shot in full out hoser mode. I honestly believe that type of ballistic masturbation (can I say that?) erodes fundamentals and serves no useful purpose other than entertaining the masses who can't shoot straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Where are those video clips? TIA, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Olhasso Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I don't know where that match with those clips was held, but those types of stages are NOT at all common for any of the matches I shot in 2003. And that includes the A3,A5,A7,A8,Factory Nats, Mid Atlantic, and Summer Blast. Don't get me wrong, I love to shoot some hose fests as shown in those clips, but NONE of the matches I shot last year had any stage which even came close the the hose fests that Blake shot on those clips. The best matches have a good mix of speed & accuracy. In my opinion, matches should avoid being too heavily weighted towards either speed or towards accuracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Area 4 2003 only had about 5 targets that were that close the whole match. Those guys put on a Shooting match. If you didn't bring your accuracy, forget it. But I have shot plenty of matches where it was nothing but in-your-face hosefests. I like a blend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 bmadsen, When it comes down to it, someone wins those "hoser" stages. They are worth plenty of points. Will it be you? Although they require less traditional-sight-picture-skill, they do require different sets of skills that many shooters simply don't have. If you have the skills, take the stage points away from Blake. Simple right? Don't be a playa'hata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 If you have the skills, take the stage points . . . Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Oh no, here we go again. Yeah, it seems like the trend continues to be towards in your face clumps of targets shot in full out hoser mode. I honestly believe that type of ballistic masturbation (can I say that?) erodes fundamentals and serves no useful purpose other than entertaining the masses who can't shoot straight. Not in Oregon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I believe those clips are from the "Arizona 400" which is something like 350+ rounds, 8 stages in one day, and specifically designed as a high-round-count, super-hosing match. Except for our similar local 4H high-round-count match, every other match I've been to isn't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 shred: That sure explains a lot. Thank you. Unfortunately, the trend towards hoser style shooting remains. I don't mean to minimize anyone's accomplishments, but I think the hoser stuff at the local level has gotten out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Area 5 had a classifier with targets at 40 yards two years ago, and before I got into the sport I hear they had one with targets at 60 yards.......60 yards, isn't that why someone invented the rifle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 I just got back from a local USPSA 3-gun match (50 shooters in the gloom of a misty 40 degree morning.. wow). There were two pistol stages. One was won by yours truly with a hit factor of 17. Serious hose-fest with lots of close paper-- more so than a typical club match. The other was also won by yours truly, but this time with a HF of 4. Texas Star at 18 yards, 6" activating plate at 20.. bunch of hard-covered classic targets.. Also 'more-so' than a typical club match, but the bottom line is you've gotta to be able to shoot fast and accurately to do well most places. (speaking of which, anybody know when is EZWinScore going to handle the Tactical Aggregate??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 HHF of 17?! Either you, sir, are a god among men, or that was one shitty stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 After watching the video clips of Blake Miguez (especially #2), I was just wondering if I am the only one who thinks the stage designer forgot the D in DVC? Or is this just how most stages look in the US? Atthe club level, I think that it depends on who is setting up the match and how much energy / time they have. I've shot both the hose fest stages and the lower hf satges at the same match depending on who set it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Trigger T At the 80 Natl's there was a stage called the Reach, three targets at 40, three at 50 and three at 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 You can NEVER have too much "D" as far as I'm concerned!!! It's safe to say that conditions differ from location to location but the bigger matches seem to have a "better than average" balance of D...V...and C. I'm all for more D...more so as I grow older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 The AZ 400 looked to be a WorldShoot's worth of round count, shot in a fraction of the real estate, in a fraction of the time. So, wall-to-wall targets. The guys who wanted to do that signed up & shot it. Probably enjoyed themselves too. TDean nailed it. If you can do everything well, you have nothing to fear at any match. However I don't enjoy hoser stages because everything's so fast it's all hard to remember afterwards. Like everyone else, if I finish top-3 on a stage then I'm fine with it. Finish middle-of-the-pack & I'll be all "bleeping bleep bleep stage..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Area 5 in 2002 (I think that was the year) had a stage at 40 yards. Fixed time at 18 secounds, 3 IPSC tagets. From standing fire six rounds free style. Reload and going to kneeling for six rounds. Then reload and go prone for six rounds, hopefully before the time was up, and the targets dissapeared. I think I failed to get off one shot, but through 3 other Mikes for -40 points, plus points oof for C & D hits. As a C class shooter I wasn't happy with myself, but there were a lot of higher ranking shooter who BOMBED the thing. You can be a M or maybe even a GM shooter and not be the most accurate shot in the world. However, if you are one of those people it can bite you in the ass at any given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Finish middle-of-the-pack & I'll be all "bleeping bleep bleep stage..." Gee, I'm happy if I finish in the crease. For years my trademark in stage design was to finish a field course with a close in, in your face hose 'em down array. In the same stage there could also be difficult shots on partials or plates backed by no shoots. Close in targets are fun, as part of a mix, which keeps things in perspective. There has always been one main problem with super close in arrays - scoring! Darn pasters keep getting blown off the target... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 I have heard from more than one GM that 90% of their misses occur at targets less than 7 yards away. I subscribe to the notion that variety is the spice of life. I like matches that have stand and shoot, run and gun, and technical stages. I thought Area 2 this year was very good in that respect. Area 4 seemed to put a lot of emphasis on the long hard shots--open gun friendly. But I am pretty much a novice in shooting big matches and still have a lot to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 I think a good field stage should have a mix of close in hoser arrays and also arrays at 20-25 yds. that force you to slow down and concentrate on accuracy. When I've designed field stages for our local matches, I never leave the closer targets wide open. Thoughtful use of hard cover and no shoots on close targets can make them quite a challenge during the heat of a match. On the stages I have designed so far, I have caught more of the better shooters with covered close in arrays then I have with targets farther away. Personally, if I can't run and gun a little, I get bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 A good friend & stage designer once said "The best way to make shooters miss is a wide open target at 3 yards". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 I am guilty of losing a stage at a Major match with a miss on on a target at less than three yards. Yes..a WIDE open target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I am guilty of losing a stage at a Major match with a miss on on a target at less than three yards. Flex, now I don't feel so bad about my C classification! Just Kidding! I think the bottom line with field stage design, as with most things, is balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Yep. You got it. Balance 1.1.3 Diversity 1.1.4 A lot of this stuff is right in the rule book...Section 1 is all about course design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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