Looking for a STI Trojan

[Spray_N_Prey]

Ok I thought that I wanted the STI Trojan 45acp, but have had a friend of mine trying to pursaude me to get a 40S&W. Here's what I know so far, and reloading isn't an issue, I have 2 650s one set up for small primers the other is large primers.

1. 40 S&W from what i've heard has mag / feeding problems

2. 40 magazines seat better when full (8 round)

3. 40 bullets / brass are cheaper.

Ok let the debating begin!!!!

[hitman]

No mag feeding problems with mine.

[Corey]

i guess you can get 40 to feed fine, it can just be a bit more picky than the traditional 45s. i shoot a 45 myself, so no real help from me, but ill following this thread intently looking for info...

[Beretta Lover]

well I believe that the easiest 1911 to have run reliably is always a 45 ACP

If you went 45 you could shoot single stac USPSA, IDPA CDP division and Lim 10 USPSA with ten round mags

My trojan 40 needed the ramp rewelded to run reliably, now it runs any length ammo and any bullet type

If you have a 40 wide body already, this would make reloading much easier, If you already have a hi cap 45 ditto

If you plan on shooting a wide body later and dont have one already, 40 makes more sense for USPSA as far as round count goes in Limited division

either caliber can be made super reliable, and there are probably alot of peopel with new unaltered 40 trojans that run fine, but you might want to search the forums on this one, I think you will hear alot about 40 SW feeding challenges, like I said i can only verify what I went through

[steel1212]

I shoot a .40 because I shoot limited also. The .45 is going to be more reliable as that is what the 1911 was designed for. .40 is cheaper to reload by quite a bit. My Springfield .40s have been great with 8+1. I don't typically run them 9+1 as I shoot a 9mm in IDPA but I don't use a barney mag and they always load that 1st round with 9 in the mag fine.

[RUSHARP2]

I picked up my Trojan in 40 on friday. Went with the 40 because I shoot limited with a 40, and it should make it easier to load only for one caliber.

I shot 250 flawless rounds through it on Sunday at two seperate match on Sunday one out in the rain, the other indoor. I used a combo of mags. Wilson 47DE, and the ETM both for 45. And the Tripp Cobra 10MM mags. No issues there, and didnt really notice a difference between them.

granted it has only been a few days but I would buy another one. I got mine from Brazos, had them add a couple things.

I was told that the Barrel Ramp is a non issue now. Most the shooters I know that shoot STI, load really long (1.2+). My limited gun takes 1.18, and they seemed to do just fine in the Trojan.

I am an extremely happy camper with mine.

Matt

[Spray_N_Prey]

ok great info so far but let me change the question some.

I am leaning to 45acp - why should I go with 40 S&W?

Reloading is NOT an issue. cost is though......

[BigBore56]

Since you live in Kansas...Nicks Pawn at Salina has a NIB Trojan .40...he will make you a heck of a cash deal for it! I bought the Trojan 9 from him, and it runs great. I have owned a dozen plastic hi-cap .40's (and sold them all) but still like shooting my Kimber 45 better. The .45's are definetely more reliable, and less headache in the long run!

.40 brass is plentiful and cheap. .45 ACP brass is scarce, and costs almost 3X as much. The .45 bullets/powder price difference does not really affect my decison, as it is not that much more of a cost over the .40 components.

I like my 1911 9 and 45's, but if I purchase a new .40, it would be a double stack EDGE. The single stack Trojan just does not offer a lot more than my other SS guns!

[kgunz11]

I've never had an issue with my Trojan .40. Could quite possibly be my favorite gun, but it doesn't get shot nearly enough.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: If you want a 45 look at the STI Spartan. I must be sounding like a broken record by now for saying that. I guess I just gave away my age buy talking about broken records I would like the Trojan more if they had a checkered front strap. My Spartan I am using skate tape for now untill I get the time to checker the front strap myself. If you can get a great deal on the Trojan I would get it. If not buy the Spartan. Thansk, Eric

[Dave Gundry]

1. 40 S&W from what i've heard has mag / feeding problems

There are more mags, that have been around longer, and fine tuned more, for 45ACP. Find mags that work, and with a properly tuned/maintained gun, you shouldn't have any problems. It's not so much that 40 has problems, just that 45 is SOO GOOD at feeding. Just ask the Revolver guys - before you laugh, it's the same principle - bigger diameter with similar tolerances means it'll just work better when the ammo is slightly out of tolerance (more room for error in ammo).

2. 40 magazines seat better when full (8 round)

There is more room in the mags, but a decent 45 mag will seat absolutely fine - I love my ETM's just for this reason (longer mag body).

3. 40 bullets / brass are cheaper.

Yup.

I currently shoot a 45, but my next 1911 will be a 40. I am looking forward to the cheaper cost of reloading, while shooting the same long load as my limited gun requires. Load a bunch of ammo for 2 divisions rather than some for both - while being cheaper overall

[G-ManBart]

I shoot a .40 because I shoot limited also. The .45 is going to be more reliable as that is what the 1911 was designed for.

Not really, but that would be thread drift The earliest variants started out as .38acp, and as they went along, were modified to accept the .45acp which was made around the same basic OAL as .38acp. Most people jump forward at least 5 years into the actual development cycle that led to the 1911, so they miss the real origins. I've had more than one top gunsmith tell me that a 1911 in Super is every bit, if not more, reliable when it comes to pure function.

For the OP, a Trojan in .40 with decent mags and ammo should run 100%. It seems STI has made some tweaks to the feed ramp and the vast majority of the problems have disappeared. Just like you can get a .45 that doesn't feed properly, it's still possible to get on in .40 that doesn't either, but at least you can go into it knowing STI will make it right.

The price and availability of brass and bullets definitely makes .40 an attractive option right now.

My .40 Trojan is often my pick when I want to do some "fun" shooting....just really a nice combination. When I get another SS gun built it'll be in .40 as well...but there's nothing wrong with sticking to a .45 if that's what you're leaning towards. R,

[twodownzero]

The 5 years leading up to the 1911 were not a 1911. Yes, Browning made many guns (not just for 5 years, but guns all the way back to before the turn of the century) that shared common features with the eventual production 1911. The 1911 he supplied for the Army demanded and received a .45 caliber cartridge that we all know and love now as .45 ACP. No 1911 in .38-anything ever existed prior to the military's adoption of the 1911, although, as you properly point out, Browning did patent and make similar handguns in other calibers, including .38 ACP. These guns were not "variants" of the 1911, though, they were separate designs that happen to bear some similarity to the later design.

Back onto the original topic, the .40 S&W 1911 seems like a great idea to me, especially now that I'm shooting limited. If someone would make a .40 S&W 1911 in the USA with a beavertail, ambies, dovetail sights, and normal front strap checkering for $1000 or less brand new, I'd order one right now. The commonality of ammo for my limited gun and single stack gun, combined with cheaper brass, cheaper bullets, less powder used, the need for only one type of pistol primer in the house, and easier to seat mags would be enough for me. I think it's a great idea.

[Spray_N_Prey]

Hello: If you want a 45 look at the STI Spartan. I must be sounding like a broken record by now for saying that. I guess I just gave away my age buy talking about broken records I would like the Trojan more if they had a checkered front strap. My Spartan I am using skate tape for now untill I get the time to checker the front strap myself. If you can get a great deal on the Trojan I would get it. If not buy the Spartan. Thansk, Eric

I thought the Trojans did have a checkered front strap?

[bdo]

They have what they call STIppling. It looks nice, but isn't nearly as grippy has your traditional 20 or 30 lpi checkering

[G-ManBart]

The 5 years leading up to the 1911 were not a 1911. Yes, Browning made many guns (not just for 5 years, but guns all the way back to before the turn of the century) that shared common features with the eventual production 1911. The 1911 he supplied for the Army demanded and received a .45 caliber cartridge that we all know and love now as .45 ACP. No 1911 in .38-anything ever existed prior to the military's adoption of the 1911, although, as you properly point out, Browning did patent and make similar handguns in other calibers, including .38 ACP. These guns were not "variants" of the 1911, though, they were separate designs that happen to bear some similarity to the later design.

Back onto the original topic, the .40 S&W 1911 seems like a great idea to me, especially now that I'm shooting limited. If someone would make a .40 S&W 1911 in the USA with a beavertail, ambies, dovetail sights, and normal front strap checkering for $1000 or less brand new, I'd order one right now. The commonality of ammo for my limited gun and single stack gun, combined with cheaper brass, cheaper bullets, less powder used, the need for only one type of pistol primer in the house, and easier to seat mags would be enough for me. I think it's a great idea.

I actually said they left out the first 5 years, not the five years leading up to the 1911, very different. Since this thread isn't about the history of the design I'll skip additional corrections.

Regardless, I'm thrilled you think a 1911 in .40 seems like a great idea. I prefer mine to my .45 SS, but a lot of that is probably the level of customization. R,

[G-ManBart]

I thought the Trojans did have a checkered front strap?

No, it's the chain link style pattern. It's much better than a smooth front strap, but it's not quite as grippy at 20lpi checkering. I think a strip of skate tape would work just fine over it, much like it does over a smooth front strap. With alumagrips on mine, I haven't found the need for extra traction on the grip. R,

[Paul Burtchell]

Shawn,

These work great on frontstraps too.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/a_frontstrap.asp

[EEH]

Since you live in Kansas...Nicks Pawn at Salina has a NIB Trojan .40...he will make you a heck of a cash deal for it! I bought the Trojan 9 from him, and it runs great. I have owned a dozen plastic hi-cap .40's (and sold them all) but still like shooting my Kimber 45 better. The .45's are definetely more reliable, and less headache in the long run!

.40 brass is plentiful and cheap. .45 ACP brass is scarce, and costs almost 3X as much. The .45 bullets/powder price difference does not really affect my decison, as it is not that much more of a cost over the .40 components.

I like my 1911 9 and 45's, but if I purchase a new .40, it would be a double stack EDGE. The single stack Trojan just does not offer a lot more than my other SS guns!

what would a great deal be ??just thinking

[The Antichrome]

Shawn, You're welcome to try out my Trojan .40 anytime.

[pjb45]

My .40 runs just fine! It was built by Tripp, that said, it is world's apart from a STI. I have heard a lot of folks take their .40 Trojan and send it off to Matt McLearn, Benny Hill, or Bob Longrigon (sp) for reliability enhancements.

40 bullets seem cheaper to me and I have a couple hundred pounds of 40 brass.

I use Tripp mags although I am hearing good things about Wilsons.

I load my ammo a little long -- one load for both my SVs and my SS.

I shoot my Tripp built gun almost exclusively when I shoot SS. I do have a .45 Trojan that sits in my safe. My Trojan is wickedly accurate but STI replace the barrel-FOC, it has Brown and Wilson safeties and C&S fire controls. Day in and Day out I shoot my .40 SS.

FWIW: I saw a number of people shooting .40 at the WSSSC this year.

[Spray_N_Prey]

Shawn,

These work great on frontstraps too.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/a_frontstrap.asp

Running to get a piece of skater tape for my Para (with the smoooooooth front strap) I don't know what I was thinking but was thinking that was an illegal mod (yes I know better).

hmmm.......................................

[Spray_N_Prey]

WOW i might have to give this Para gun rights a chance, now that I stippled the front strap with some fine skater tape. What a difference.

keep the debate going............

[TonyT]

ok great info so far but let me change the question some.

I am leaning to 45acp - why should I go with 40 S&W?

Reloading is NOT an issue. cost is though......

The cost of powder and primers will be vitually the same for 40 S&W or 45 ACP - currently large psitol primers are much more readilly available than small pistol primers. As for bullets you can purchase Zero 230 gr. FMJ's for $115/1000 from several suppliers and cast bullets are eve less expensive. Your cost savings would be minimal in my view.

I shoot an STI Trojan in 40 S&W, a Dan Wesson in 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP, a Sprigfield Armory 9mm Target and a 45 ACP Trophy Match and a S&W 945 in 45 ACP.

[BillD]

1. 40 S&W from what i've heard has mag / feeding problems

There are more mags, that have been around longer, and fine tuned more, for 45ACP. Find mags that work, and with a properly tuned/maintained gun, you shouldn't have any problems. It's not so much that 40 has problems, just that 45 is SOO GOOD at feeding. Just ask the Revolver guys - before you laugh, it's the same principle - bigger diameter with similar tolerances means it'll just work better when the ammo is slightly out of tolerance (more room for error in ammo).

2. 40 magazines seat better when full (8 round)

There is more room in the mags, but a decent 45 mag will seat absolutely fine - I love my ETM's just for this reason (longer mag body).

3. 40 bullets / brass are cheaper.

Yup.

I currently shoot a 45, but my next 1911 will be a 40. I am looking forward to the cheaper cost of reloading, while shooting the same long load as my limited gun requires. Load a bunch of ammo for 2 divisions rather than some for both - while being cheaper overall

Yup, buy a new gun, you'll save a ton of money on reloading....

How many loads of .40 over .45 do you think it will take to pay for a new gun?