ar piston system for 3 gun

[tk4]

I am thinking about getting an Adams Arms piston system for one of my 16" midlength guns. I have heard the piston systems reduce recoil and a lot of 3 gunners are using them. How will the recoil compare to my other midlength 16" with a jp low mass carrier, standard carbine buffer, and adj gas block?

[MarkCO]

I guess I would need to know what "a lot" means. I know several who have tried them and gone back to gas systems. In my experience, the overall recoil impulse is more all else being equal. Compared to what you have, probably a good deal more.

[jobob]

I use a POF piston 18" in many matches. It definitely has more of a recoil impulse than a direct impingement system. Not sure where you heard they reduce recoil and "a lot" of 3 gunners using them. From my experience neither is true. Mine is extremely reliable, though. The greater recoil isn't overly so and is manageable. And, to my mind the greatest advantage to a piston system, it is easy to clean and cleaning isn't needed nearly as often. I love mine, but I don't plan on buying another one.

[Bryan 45]

I won an Adams Arms kit at Benning this year and put it on an 18" midlength Sabre barrel. First shot out of the rifle and I was AMAZED at the lack of recoil. The sights stayed right on target at 100 yards. At this point I'm thinking "why doesn't everyone use this????" Then I pulled the trigger again, and nothing happened. Turns out I had the gas setting on "off" and the lack of recoil was due to zero reciprocating mass.

I like the Adams Arms piston kit, it keeps everything inside the receiver nice and clean. But, I do notice a little more recoil than a DI gun.

[kellyn]

In my experience all of the piston guns have more recoil or muzzle bounce than the direct impingment system. That is not to say that they cannot be competitive though.

[chp5]

I have an AA kit on an 11.5" SBR. I agree with all of the other comments on the recoil impulse. I have heard some piston manufacturers claim that it cuts recoil - which is bunk.

I've only shot around 200 rounds through it, but I do like it on this upper and it keeps the carbine clean. However I personally would not put one on a competition upper.

[abn-rgr]

I shot an AA system all last year. There is definitely a little more recoil than a DI system. The reliability and cleanliness outweighed that in my opinion. I am starting to see a lot more piston systems out there.

[HS101]

I shot my first match last week with my piston gun (16" mid length w/ Adams Arms conversion). It ran smooth, and while under stress (meaning once the buzzer sounded) I didn't notice any big difference in perceived recoil... It might have been different, but not heavier... (I did have an extra power buffer spring and a good comp installed as compared to when I ran the system as stock)... Now, take this with the usual grain of salt - I'm starting my 2nd year of 3 gun, so your mileage may vary...

As someone else said... It runs noticeably cleaner, which I think is a big plus!

[GentlemanJim]

In most of the retrofit systems, you are using the gas port size that was intended for a carbine gas system.

We found that port is at least 25 percent over what is actually needed.

Piston or oprod systems have more reciprocating mass than di systems..(some more than others)

These two issues contribute to the overall feel ..(perceived recoil).

Most retrofit systems do not allow you to use a free float handguard system

This prevents you from using the one thing that gains more accuracy in the AR than any other except match barrels.

All of these things and the additional cost tend discourage its use in competition.

Jim

[RufDog]

JP components offer tunability that cant be denied, however, ARs are tunable in more areas than just the gas block. I run a brake & enidine buffer with my Adams Arms piston gun. Of the 3 AA systems I use, all are equiped with FF tubes. I ran 5,000+ rds through my main AA gun last year. I shot that paritcular gun in several matches to include the ITRC. Notably, in the gully course the gun did not get too hot to hold onto, which can be a problem (it seems like that course used 15ish(?)30rd magazines). I had exactly 4 malfs & i'll tell you why- I was trying a Hi-Power trick of putting grease in my buffer tube, turns out you can put too much in. I dont feel like there are any notable disadvantages but I can only speak for the Adams Arms piston system in particular.

[S&W627shooter]

JP components offer tunability that cant be denied, however, ARs are tunable in more areas than just the gas block. I run a brake & enidine buffer with my Adams Arms piston gun. Of the 3 AA systems I use, all are equiped with FF tubes. I ran 5,000+ rds through my main AA gun last year. I shot that paritcular gun in several matches to include the ITRC. Notably, in the gully course the gun did not get too hot to hold onto, which can be a problem (it seems like that course used 15ish(?)30rd magazines). I had exactly 4 malfs & i'll tell you why- I was trying a Hi-Power trick of putting grease in my buffer tube, turns out you can put too much in. I dont feel like there are any notable disadvantages but I can only speak for the Adams Arms piston system in particular.

Which FF tubes will work with piston conversions without going to a big square rail tube?

Chris

[mpeltier]

I won an Adams Arms piston kit at the BRM3G (Thank you Adams Arms) and finally got it together this week. I assembled it into a 16" carbine with a carbine(7") gas system. I used a PRI Delta free float forearm. PRI made it special for me as they only catalog rifle and midlength Delta forearms (Thanks also to PRI for doing this for me). Also installed a comp and JP trigger, as well as a magpul UBR stock. I must say I am quite impressed. My son and I took it out today and sighted it in then shot the heck out of it at ranges of 10-150 yds with 4 differant loads, 55,62,68,75 (handloads). All loads shot under 1" at 100. This bbl previously had a short life as a carbine gas gun and never produced a group better than 1 1/2". The improvement no doubt do to the free floating handguards, but nothing seems to be taken away by the piston kit.

Now as to recoil. I am absolutely amazed at the recoil reduction this gun now has. It is much less than when the gun was a standard DI gas system. I then proceeded to compare it to both mine and my sons game guns that are modified with adj gas blocks and light JP carriers. Mine is rifle gas and Daltons is Mid. Mine has always been a bit smoother, but both are close in the felt recoil, which ain't much. This new piston gun shot right in there with them. At 150 yds the aiming point actually seemed to jump less with the piston gun, but it felt differant on the shoulder. One thing I did do was to make the buffer lighter. I replaced all the tungsten weights with aluminum. This I am sure contributed. As a DI gas gun, I would never have considered this 16" for 3-gun use. In its current configuration i would not hesitate to use it at our local matches. With a better suited optic, I am sure it would work well for matches with shots out to 400yds or so.

Reliability was 100% with everything we put thru it. about 600 rds. And when I removed the bolt carrier to clean it, I took one look at it and slid it back in. It almost looked like we hadn't shot it.

[Pro2AInPA]

I had a Spike's/Adams upper for a while. Definitely more recoil than a DI gun.

[Bryan 45]

I picked up an Adams Arms rifle kit off the table at the BRM3G. I ran into Jason Adams and Wish outside the tent and they offered to let me trade it on a carbine or midlength kit if I wanted. Hell no! I didn't even know they made a rifle length kit, I had to try it out. I had a spare 20" DPMS upper and found a Troy rail for a decent price. (I just couldn't stand the fat plastic handguards.) It's a heavy beast, but a lot of that I think is due to the HBAR barrel. I've only put about 100 rounds through it so far, but it is smooth cycling and with all the weight it's pretty soft. I did have to have the Troy rail machined locally to fit, but it involved very little work and the shop only charged me $30.

[chp5]

I just put FF handguards on my piston SBR. This is a DD 9.5 fsp that fits around gas block. Very light and I really like it. Still not my first or second choice for 3 gun though. I am impressed with the AA kit though. Very clean and smooth.

[Beebs317]

Had an AA piston on a 16" upper. Had a few problems, great customer service, if you send it to them. Not really for competition guns.