Are all primers created equally? ? ?

[rugerp89ipsc]

In advance, thank you.

Okay, my stock of primers and powder are now dwindling and I am about to start competing again regularly, so I need to do something about my stocks. I have currently, (last 10k rounds loaded) been using winchester small pistol primers. However, it seems very hard at the moment to locate these and I am wondering if primers are primers or if some are more reliable/better qc than others.

I have a chrono, so I am not worried about the effects on the pf as much as just how consistent the primers are. I plan to work my loads up just like I did with the winchesters, so that is not an issue. Does anyone have suggestions on what to shy away from or what can be put in the winchesters' place without ill effects.

I am currently finishing up on VV320 keg, but plan to make the switch afterwards to tightgroup to hopefully knock out some of the smoke I have been getting with the "black" bullets I have been loading. All these bullets with be for 40 (shot out of a glock) and hopefully 38spl soon.

from what I have seen online, it seems that wolf primers are pretty easy to get along with some other no names. However, I am not real excited about using these, but have not been able to find much in the way of range reports on them. Any suggestions or insight on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Sarge]

There is a TON of stuff on here about primers, wolf included. Searching should answer your questions.

Also switching to TG is in no way shape or form going to help reduce smoke with Moly bullets. There is a lot of info here regarding that as well.

[G-ManBart]

This is the longest thread on Wolf primers that I've seen. I've only tried a couple hundred of their small rifle in my 38SC loads, but they've all gone bang.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=89858&view=findpost&p=1031707

Generally, if you're not using a gun with a very light mainspring (1911) or with reduced power springs in something like a Glock, or a revolver with a light action, any major name primer is going to work fine. They're all a little different, but not so different to cause you problems. Fed SP Mag have been available with some regularity and they work well for everyone I've seen try them. I wouldn't use them for a .38Spl wadcutter load (too light to seal primer pocket) but for even normal Minor loads in 9mm they'd be fine.

Titegroup is going to smoke more than N320 with moly bullets. R,

[cnote]

TG and moly = smoke

I have wolf on the way and will report on their performance after loading some up!

[Y. Koester]

I have loaded and shot a little over 5k of wolf small rifle primers in my limited guns with

15 and 17 lb main springs with no problems. They are just as good as any other brand as far as i am concerned. Oh,tight group and moly equals a lot of smoke. Tight group is one of the worst for smoke with moly or lead bullets from my experience.

[rugerp89ipsc]

good to know on the smoke. I guess I will change my search back up and start trying to find some more n320 and just stick with what i know there. Everything will be going through my g22 i use for work.

from looking online. it seems as though I should get whatever primers i can and maybe be a little less picky. I had wanted to switch to tightgroup because i thought it would be a powder i could use for both 38 spl and the 40. but the smoke is bad now. so that seems to be a no go. and I still have nearly 8k moly bullets to go

thanks for the insight and help.

[pivoproseem]

You could always run some SOLO 1000, alot of people like it with moly bullets. It's a nice behaving single base powder like N320.

good to know on the smoke. I guess I will change my search back up and start trying to find some more n320 and just stick with what i know there. Everything will be going through my g22 i use for work.

from looking online. it seems as though I should get whatever primers i can and maybe be a little less picky. I had wanted to switch to tightgroup because i thought it would be a powder i could use for both 38 spl and the 40. but the smoke is bad now. so that seems to be a no go. and I still have nearly 8k moly bullets to go

thanks for the insight and help.

[lneel]

Wolf primers are fine as long as you don't have a super light mainspring. TG will absolutely smoke with Moly/Poly coated bullets more than N320....Ramshot Comp is about the same as N320 as far as the amount of smoke is concerned.

[Chris Spiess]

You could always run some SOLO 1000, alot of people like it with moly bullets. It's a nice behaving single base powder like N320.

+1 on Solo 1000, I use it as my primary powder for 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP, almost exclusively with moly bullets (Precision Bullets, specifically)

I've been through about 5k Wolf small pistol primers and have no reason to complain. I lost some velocity over CCIs in my .40 load, but other than that they've been fine.

[calishootr]

n320 is waay too hot for moly bullets, for less smoke use a 'cooler' burning powder, like a broken record, ill say it again, my favorite for 38/40/45 is WST...burns cool and clean, has a low felt recoil impulse and 'was' cheap beforethe ammo/components price hikes

[BMartens]

I'm working up some 9 major loads and I ran a batch with WSR primers and a duplicate batch with Wolf SR primers and there was virtually no difference in the velocity and the SD was single digit across the board. I could tell no difference.

I'm using WSF with BBI bullets in 9mm and there is very little smoke. Haven't gotten around to trying Solo 1000 yet.

[rugerp89ipsc]

thanks for all the replies. that was the info I was looking for. My main concern was, will these primers perform consistently.

If I ever find powder again, I will try some of the suggestions. the precision seem to shoot real well through my glock, so I appreciate the suggestions for better powder combos since I have another 8k to go through before ordering new bullets.

[GrumpyOne]

Check with Powder Valley for primers. If they have Winchester Small pistol magnums, buy them. They will only add about 10-15 FPS over the normal Winchester SP primer. They will have the same cup hardness, etc. so you don't have to worry about that. And, they had them listed at $25.00 per thousand.

[Yagi]

I can honestly say that almost all small primers gives out minimal FPS disparity. Magnums & rifle are hard cup. It all depends on what gun you are using and what application. Light firing pin springs as well as length will also play into consideration. Either way if you get them. Buy 'em!

To answer your question, no they are not equal in my humble opinion. But to our application say uspsa,ipsc,idpa - it's not that important. What's important is to have all primers light up.

[LPatterson]

NO all primers are not made equally. I ran a test with some Federal Gold Medal Match Magnum, Federal 200M and Winchester WSP. Powder was 7.15 N350, bullet 155MGHP @ 1.120, gun Glock 24C, Chrono CED. GM200M ES 35 SD 11 AV 1108, F200 ES 39 SD 10 AV 1102, WSP ES 41 SD 13 AV 1087.

[twodownzero]

NO all primers are not made equally. I ran a test with some Federal Gold Medal Match Magnum, Federal 200M and Winchester WSP. Powder was 7.15 N350, bullet 155MGHP @ 1.120, gun Glock 24C, Chrono CED. GM200M ES 35 SD 11 AV 1108, F200 ES 39 SD 10 AV 1102, WSP ES 41 SD 13 AV 1087.

I'm not sure what your sample size was, but those all seem close enough to be considered "the same" to me.

I personally use primers interchangeably and have for years. I got a bad batch of Wolf primers lately and so I'm going to be a little gun shy about buying any more of them for a while if I can get something else.

It seems that at the USPSA Nationals (from the stats in Front Sight), Federal and Winchester pretty much own the USPSA competitor market. I know at local matches I've met some primer snobs who won't use a CCI, Wolf, etc., primer and prefer one brand.

Before Wolf came on the market, I used more CCI than anything else. The only primers I've ever had fail to go bang all were Wolf Small Pistol from lot number 11-09, which Wolf paid me back for and I've since pulled most of the ammo because it wasn't worth messing with. I've never had a CCI or Winchester primer fail to go bang.

It seems to me that for anything other than a revolver with a light action job, just about any primer will work the same.

Edited March 19, 2010 by twodownzero

[G-ManBart]

NO all primers are not made equally. I ran a test with some Federal Gold Medal Match Magnum, Federal 200M and Winchester WSP. Powder was 7.15 N350, bullet 155MGHP @ 1.120, gun Glock 24C, Chrono CED. GM200M ES 35 SD 11 AV 1108, F200 ES 39 SD 10 AV 1102, WSP ES 41 SD 13 AV 1087.

Leroy,

I'd have to say that those numbers are well within the normal variation you'd see for three consecutive strings of the same ammo, much less three with different primers. A spread of 35-41 for ES (6fps), a spread of 10-13 SD (3fps) and a spread of 1087-1108 for average (21fps)....that's pretty amazing actually considering there was a change involved.

What's really interesting is that you were comparing Match Mag and WSP and the Match Mag wasn't really much better from an ES/SD standpoint. The magnum part shows the same 15-20fps difference I've come to expect when going from SP to SPM or SR. R,

[LPatterson]

I knew my OCD or should I say airborne training would cause me grief some day. But I wouldn't want someone to think that their 168PF load is going to get through a level II or above if they start changing primers or brass for that matter. My standard is that the lowest individual velocity must produce a PF greater than 168 for major and 130 for minor.

twodownzero the group size for a semiauto is 20 and the revo is 24.

[G-ManBart]

I knew my OCD or should I say airborne training would cause me grief some day.

I tend to think that a bit of OCD might not be a bad thing in people who plan on jumping out of airplanes with 70lbs of gear strapped to them

[Yoder]

The only primers I've had a problem with were Remington. Winchester, CCI and Federals all no problems.