rhino Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 In this topic, I will pose questions regarding bending or breaking the rules during matches . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 25, 2003 Author Share Posted December 25, 2003 1. We all know that it's forbidden under USPSA/IPSC rules to have more than one gun on your person during a match. We know that some people prefer to never be without a loaded gun on their person at any time. Have you ever had your loaded hideout (or something else concealed) on your person while you shot a USPSA/IPSC match? What about IDPA or other games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 No, I have never exceeded the cold range specifications, but I did change my score once while entering it at a match that I was handling the stats for. I had argued my way out of a single penalty on the first stage I shot and then felt bad about it all day long. I had decided by the time of entry that I had actually wholly deserved it and went ahead and added the penalty to my score. Happy Holidays to All, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 No.....I have spent some time running and RO'ing small action pistol matches and know first hand how dificult it can be to enforce range rules and to make sure the range is safe for everyone involved. I would never feel comfortable breaking the rules of a cold range. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Why do you ask? What is the purpose of this line of questioning, and what do you expect to accomplish with these questions? I don't thnk anyone will fess up and say they actually cheated, so what are you looking for here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liota Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Tightloop, Maybe he's trying to convince someone that it was allegedly a "loaded firearm" we were frightened by "when the pants failed." twice. Liota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Must have been at an IDPA practice for back up guns, cause I hear the "weapon" was short barrelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Rhino, I am a club officer, and have been one for nearly 10 years. The range owner holds our club officers responsible for enforcing his "range rules" during our club matches. At our range you would likely be banned from the range for intentionally carrying a loaded gun in violation of the cold range policy. We have had had people "stroll up" to watch our matches and then learn that they were packing but I have never witnessed the intentional violation that you describe. I personally am not terribly worried about my safety when there are 30+ armed and well trained shooters in the immediate vicinity. If your fear is of a fellow shooter, there is a probelm. Our home range has a zero tolerance policy for physical contact. If you "place you hands on someone" (which usually precedes more violent actions) you are off the range forever ... end of story. Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.J. Norris Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 If you are standing around the range with 30-40 people that have 50 -60 rounds on their belt, a gun in the holster, and all of them can load their gun in at least 2 secs then I'm not quite sure what a 5 shot .38 snubby BUG is going to accomplish. It would have to be some kind of crazed SOB to attack the group. P.S. It'd also be nice if my Dad would post under his screen name........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 I have not, but a good buddy of mine (whom shall remain nameless) has and does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Never. The carry gun goes in the glove box at my last stop before heading to the range. With 40rnds of 45 ACP on my belt, my blaster in it’s holster AND several good friends similarly equipped, the range, during a match, is a place where I feel COMPLETELY secure. Besides, rules are rules. I think it’s a matter of personal integrity, a point of honor if you will, to always abide by the existing policy and to be able to trust those around you to do the same. I don’t believe in the old saw “love is what makes the world go round”. What really does, what allows us as human beings to interact at ANY level, is trust. Even to have a casual, face-to-face conversation requires a certain level of trust. E.g. I trust you’ll not to punch me in the nose during our little chat. On the other hand, if you don’t like an existing rule, then lobby to change it. It’s been suggested in other threads of establishing “hot zones” at the range to address the issue of coming to the range with your carry gun. If such a rule change was passed I MIGHT use it, but probably not, I’d feel more COMFORTABLE just leaving my loaded gun locked in the car. Miscellaneous ramblings… Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 This question involves the Concealed Handgun laws. Like the "C" in concealed, if the person is doing it correctly, you probably won't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Nope, that would be breaking rules and I seem to find other ways to get into trouble at matches, unintentionally. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 The concealed carry issue aside for a moment, perhaps it would be useful to discuss 'cheating' and 'rule infractions' we've noted on the part of OTHER shooters (no need to mention names and legally tie ourselves in knots) and how they got away with it or WHY they did it in the first place. Also, assuming (the 'trust' thing again) for a moment that all of us responding to this thread ARE honest in competitions and haven't knowingly cheated, then there's almost nothing to discuss. Again, we could talk about known infractions perpetrated by other less scrupulous shooters and see what kind of crap emerges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Cheating is cheating, but bending the rules is "Gaming". I would assume that everyone here who shoots USPSA/IPSC has gamed a stage before, so that leaves us with the question of ( with the exception of Rhino lhimself) are you willing to drop your laundry in front of the whole forum to admit you did something wrong, unscrupulous, illegal, less than tactful, fradulent, etc. ...and anyone who saw that bullet stick in the cardboard, it was a figment of your imagination, 'cause all my stuff makes PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 25, 2003 Author Share Posted December 25, 2003 I have not, but a good buddy of mine (whom shall remain nameless) has and does. Thanks for your response, Jake! To some of the other comments . . . There's a world of difference between violating rules and "cheating." The former is a simple and obvious, but the latter involves both violating the rules and the intent of gaining some sort of advantageous outcome. Stacking shots on a target when the walkthrough says you can't, but you don't get caught is cheating. Having a j-frame in an ankle holster is a rules violation, but it's absurd to call it "cheating" because it can only hinder your performance. I do know people who are never, ever unarmed when they are outside of their houses. I think some of you would be very surprised at some club matches if you waved a metal detector wand over some pockets and ankles some time. As long as I don't see it, I don't care. I don't happen to carry a second gun when I am shooting USPSA/IPSC matches or even IDPA. I've done it gladly during GSSF, pin matches, and other events that do not require a holster. There's not a chance in the world I'm going to be around 300+ strangers at a GSSF match unarmed (and of course, having an unloaded 9mm Glock in a bag is unarmed to me because I can't use one effectively under stress). If I'd been "caught" and asked to leave, I would have done so without a fuss. If you don't want to answer my questions, no one is even remotely trying to force you to do so. If they make you angry (as apparently it has Mr. Sunshine), you're obviously free to vent your indignation, but I see less use in that than you probably do in my asking questions. My next is going to be about scoring targets, so you probably won't like it either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Lead on Rhino! I'm lovin' it! This looks like it is going to get a lot more interesting. Happy Holidays, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 25, 2003 Author Share Posted December 25, 2003 Lead on Rhino! I'm lovin' it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeter Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 i didn't do you can'nt prove it wasn't me just an other 6'4 300 pound guy with brown hair. i alllways obey alll the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 Dang it, Rhino! From the title, I thought this was going to be an interesting thread! Sorry man! Packing a back-up gun during a match just isn't great confession material. You know...... unless you were also wearing your girlfriends panties or something. BTW, Kyle? You got anything you been dying to tell us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 This could still be a decent thread. Needs more input, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 26, 2003 Author Share Posted December 26, 2003 Dang it, Rhino! From the title, I thought this was going to be an interesting thread! Sorry man! Packing a back-up gun during a match just isn't great confession material. You know...... unless you were also wearing your girlfriends panties or something. Hey, we have to ease into that stuff! I chose to start in the "comfort zone" and work my way from there! I'm also going to ask everyone how much money they make and if they still beat their kids/spouse/parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaughn leayme Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 Pack a BUG (back up gun) yep, I may be among the best, safest shooters, that you could find (at a range or during a match), but there is no accounting for the occasional fruit loop, that decides today is the day...... Sure, we can all get our currently unloaded firearms up and running in seconds, but one can get an already loaded one up even quicker and spend those fractions of a second evaluating the threat and going to cover or shooting, instead of loading and making ready. I guess we can all put it down to our personal comfort level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORCA Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 Not a good idea at all!!! In addition to being a match DQ, I'm pretty sure you would be barred from the club. I can't believe someone would be so paranoid as to feel they needed to carry a back up gun at a match, and I would have reservations about being around them. I guess if you had some lunatic fringe tactical guy that made the die hard IDPA types nervous you might have a case, but you might be that guy... We do have people at my club that put on a carry gun as soon as the match is over and that is allowed, not liked, but allowed. I know I could get my limited gun up and running faster than I could get to a deeply concealed backup gun, have more ammo for it. and be a hell of a lot better with it. As far as always carring a gun there are a lot of places you can't legally carry a concealed weapon and if you get caught in all likely hood you'll never legally carry or maybe even own a firearm again. As far as cheating goes your only real competition is yourself. You may get a better match score, but you won't have a true representation of your abilities. You will doubt yourself when under pressure.and your self image will be built on a on a poor foundation. Gaming is a battle of wits between you and the stage designer. If you game a stage and it works then you have completed a succesfully stratagy exercise. If the stage designer doesn't like people gaming his stages he will improve his stage design skills and everybody will be better off for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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