72stick

Interesting you should mention the .40 S&W STI barrel. I also have an STI Edge in .40 S&W. My gunsmith tuned the trigger to a crisp 2# break and it is a fun gun to shoot. Although you have to work a little harder than I think you should have to off a bag, it will group nicely at 25 yards. I shot it today on Challenge Steel Targets and was ringing steel for a couple hours.

Maybe try shooting it with the grip safety unpinned to see if it's pinned correctly and not dragging on the trigger?

I'm having similar issues with my Edge 9mm. I started another thread before I saw this one. Here's my post from that thread: I had to send my pistol back to STI. The groups were starting to open up. When mine was new it shot nice tight groups on an 8 inch paper plate at 25 yards. Now I'm lucky to keep 5 shots on the plate at 25 yards. My local gunsmith looked at the gun and couldn't see anything obviously wrong. He did notice the barrel lugs didn't show full contact with the slide for a full lockup. Only the rear lug showed a wear pattern. He slugged the barrel and the bore was really smooth with no pits or other imperfections and measured .355", however, the throat was really long. With my calipers, it measured a little over .380". I knew STI used a long throat on their 9mm barrels, so I looked up the 9mm SAAMI specs. SAAMI shows a max spec of .170". Even if I loaded to 1.2", that leaves a bullet jump of more than .180" and that's from the tip of the bullet not the ogive. That sure seems like a long way for the bullet to perfectly jump before it enters the rifling. I'm hoping when I get the pistol back it will shoot nice tight groups.

If the grip safety isn't pinned, are you sure the grip safety is fully depressed and releasing the trigger?

That's really nice! I had to send my pistol back to STI. The groups were starting to open up. When mine was new it shot nice tight groups on an 8 inch paper plate at 25 yards. Now I'm lucky to keep 5 shots on the plate at 25 yards. My local gunsmith looked at the gun and couldn't see anything obviously wrong. He did notice the barrel lugs didn't show full contact with the slide for a full lockup. Only the rear lug showed a wear pattern. He slugged the barrel and the bore was really smooth with no pits or other imperfections and measured .355", however, the throat was really long. With my calipers, it measured a little over .380". I knew STI used a long throat on their 9mm barrels, so I looked up the 9mm SAAMI specs. SAAMI shows a max spec of .170". Even if I loaded to 1.2", that leaves a bullet jump of more than .180" and that's from the tip of the bullet not the ogive. That sure seems like a long way for the bullet to perfectly jump before it enters the rifling. I'm hoping when I get the pistol back it will shoot those nice tight groups you're getting.

That's really nice! I had to send my pistol back to STI. The groups were starting to open up. When mine was new it shot nice tight groups on an 8 inch paper plate at 25 yards. Now I'm lucky to keep 5 shots on the plate at 25 yards. My local gunsmith looked at the gun and couldn't see anything obviously wrong. He did notice the barrel lugs didn't show full contact with the slide for a full lockup. Only the rear lug showed a wear pattern. He slugged the barrel and the bore was really smooth with no pits or other imperfections and measured .355",however, the throat was really long. With my calipers, it measured a little over .380". I knew STI used a long throat on their 9mm barrels, so I looked up the 9mm SAAMI specs. SAAMI shows a max spec of .170". Even if I loaded to 1.2", that leaves a bullet jump of more than .180" and that's from the tip of the bullet not the ogive. That sure seems like a long way for the bullet to perfectly jump before it enters the rifling. I'm hoping when I get the pistol back it will shoot those nice tight groups you're getting.

Hi guys, Just wondering what kind of groups people are seeing with their 9mm Edge? Any 1 inch 5 shot groups at 25 yards?

Just my 2 cents, but gas guns in general require more attention to the basics of marksmanship than the bolt guns. If there's a weakness in your basic marksmanship skills, the gas gun will let you know. Once you've found the OCW for the bullet you want to use at the distance you'll be shooting the most, you'll need to cancel out as much of your body signature as possible, if you want small groups with the AR platform. It is capable of producing some nice groups, but you have to work a little harder to get results. I can't remeber the title, but the Army manual for shooting the M16 does a really good job of explaining position shooting and diagnosing issues by reading your targets. The target never lies.

I posted this on another thread on hammer follow. Use at your own risk, or not. It's just my 2 cents, but if it were my 2011, I'd have my smith check the relief cut on the sear. There's a little radius under the hammer hooks that prevents a squared off sear from seating on 100% of the sear and hammer hooks contact surfaces. A relief cut lets the sear seat deeper under the hammer hooks. Without the space the relief cut creates, the sear can't fully seat under the hooks when it resets especially under high speed and can allow the hammer to follow.

Ok guys help me out here. If your gun functions with factory ammo and you aren't loading for major power factor, what's the advantage to loading 9mm longer than factory ammo OAL? I get the part about better acuracy by reloading and I've done that for years and I could see loading longer with 147s to get more powder in the case, but if it works with factory ammo, what do you gain by loading long with minor PF?

Does anyone make a AR 9mm cleaning rod bore guide? I've looked on Midway and Brownell's.

I've found on my STI Edge pistols, ones a .40 and the other is a 9mm, they both tended to lock the slide back before the last round entered the chamber. I modified both pistols not to lock back on the last round. Most stages have places to reload between targets on the clock w/o costing you any time.

I brought my backup pistol to the Nodic/Votex Tri-Gun last month. Lucas Oil's, Lisa Marie Judy was on my squad and her Glock stopped grouping on the second day. I loaned her my backup G34 and she finished the match. Love my backup guns. Makes new friends.

That would make a lot of sense, because even with high tension on the sear spring it is still doing it. What really sucks is it literally just got back from the smith. Methinks it will be going to a different smith this time. I will give him a call and see what he says about it. I hope he can use the parts that are in it. I can't afford to spend another $130+ on parts. Murphys law, it happens with 2 state matches on the way... ugh sometimes it makes me miss my glock. Thanks for all the help gentlemen. If anyone else has a solution or comment feel free to post. Thank you.Smith should be able stick it in their jig to stone your sear and clean it up. They should also stone the sides of the sear and the hammer. Makes it break the shot smooth as a glass rod breaking.

It's just my 2 cents, but if it were my 2011, I'd have the smith check the relief cut on the sear face. There's a little bit of a radius under the hammer hooks that prevents a squared off sear from seating on 100% of the sear and hammer hooks contact surfaces. A relief cut lets the sear seat deeper under the hammer hooks. Without the space the relief cut creates, the sear can't fully seat under the hooks when it resets especially under high speed and can allow the hammer to follow.

It's been a few years since I got into the AR10, and I love all 3 of my Armalite AR10s. My first AR-10T Super SASS didn't shoot to its full potential and sometimes you just get a bad barrel. I found that the big ARs are a little challenging to hard hold and get to sub MOA. I kept trying to figure out why it didn't shoot sub MOA and lucky for me my gunsmith, Rick Clancy, worked for Armalite for 7 years and guess what he worked on. The one thing you really have to watch on the big bore ARs, if there is really only one thing, it's the carrier, bolt and barrel extension all need to match and really should come from the same manufacturer. In other words, don't mix and match. Even then you still have to check headspace. I really wanted the Super SASS to shoot, but that project lingered for a few years and I bought a second AR10. After we determined the barrel was the issue on the Super SASS, I picked up a Shelin 6.5 Creedmoor barrel blank earlier this year. Rick finished profiling the barrel after chambering and he's finishing up the re-barreling this weekend. I chose to keep it simple on my second AR10 and just tuned it to run the SM 168s. Most AR10s are way over gassed. Rick adjusted the gas system and it shoots really soft. If I do my part, it shoots sub MOA. Since this carbine is still about 11 lbs, it's now my backup heavy metal rifle for 3gun. And then I got a little crazy on my last AR10. This one has all JP parts in the upper including the barrel and man does it shoot. It's much lighter and a real pleasure shooting heavy metal 3gun. I can't wait to brake-in my 6.5 CM AR10. Maybe after the Nordic/Vortex Tri-gun next week I'll have time to ring it out.

This may have nothing to do with it, but is he running a recoil spring buffer?

I called & talked to John Holliger's wife a few moths ago to ask about his White Oak barrels in 6.5CM. She said John isn't doing anything with the big AR platform these days. He has plenty of work on the AR15 to keeping busy. She did say that they have been getting some requests for AR10 barrels and they may revisit that platform if there's enough demand.

That was my biggest concern. With the weather changing to cold and wet, my range time is more limited. I'm going to try to take the AR10 & my AR15 out to the 300 yard range Saturday. I have a 1-6x on my AR15. I can set up some far and near targets to get an idea of how restricted my field of view is going to be at 100, 200 & 300 yards and compare that to the transitions with the AR15. The AR10 is going to be slower anyway, but if find myself prairie dogging and too much slower indexing on multiple targets at different ranges, I could move the 1-6x over to the AR10. Of course that would mean more ammo to re-zero. Oh, Darn! I'd have to shoot more. I'm not see a downside to this test.

I've used 1-4x for a couple seasons, but I would like a little more magnification and a better reticle. With the 10x mil/mil fixed power off my bolt gun, I'd get a better reticle, I wouldn't have to dial my power settings, I'd get more magnification and no additional cost for a new 1-6x or 1-8x scope. I'm not suggesting that fixed is better, what I'm looking for is anyone that has experience using a fix power scope for distance with offset irons for the short game and any advantages or disadvantages. If this is a bad plan with an obvious downside, I'd like to know about it before I test the plan at my first match of the year. I can always get a 1-6x or a 1-8x.

As much as I appreciate the suggesting, I've forgotten to dial the scope back to 1x on metric targets at 5 yards with the scope on 3x for targets at 200 yards. It's like trying to follow the center line in the road looking through a 3 inch hole in the floorboards while driving 60 miles an hour with all windows blacked out. It doesn't end well.

I was reading the pinned thread on iron sights for heavy metal and that peaked my interest for optic/irons in heavy. This year the MO3GC is looking at combining the heavy divisions into one division. Last year they had steel out to 600 yards on a one stage with another having steel at 500, 300, 200 and 100. Those longer targets and the half size skinny poppers at 100 were a real challenge for me as my 1-4 scope’s BQC reticle wasn’t that fine and with my old eyes the dots covered most of the targets surface. This year I’ve been thinking of running a 10x fixed power mil/mil scope for those longer targets and then a set of offset irons for the close targets. The advantage with the fixed 10x mil/mil would be the far targets having a much finer sight picture and the close targets wouldn’t require adjusting the ranging ring. Another advantage would be the hold overs/unders would be much easier with the finer reticle in the MilDot system. The biggest disadvantage I can think of is the field of view for finding those smaller steel targets at longer range with the 10x is reduced compared to a 1-4 or even a 1-6. I’d be interested to know if anyone has tried a higher power scope for those longer shots in 3 gun with offset irons for close in targets and any advantages or disadvantages they found? I look forward to the discussion.

Igor is awesome! He patiently works with you if you have a question. I am not surprised he had a plan in place to fix the issue before you contacted him.

Pretty much any powder for handguns works well. Several folks like Titegroup and it's a fine powder. I like WSF in mine. It's a little softer shooting than Titegroup, as if recoil mattered. The SD for WSF is also a little better in mine. My gun likes about 950 f/s and performs well with the 147g lead, FMJ or copper plated bullets out to 100 yrds. Best groups so far at 100 yrds were found with factory Winchester 147g HP @ 2.5 MOA. Next best was Winchester FMJ, followed by my reloads using lead coated HiTech 147g bullets. I'm still tweaking my reloads for Hornady 147 XTPs, cause they haven't been constantly producing 3 MOA groups at 100. I may go back and try Titegroup again with the Hornady 147s. I don't really care for the recoil impulse that Titegroup produces, but I should be able to duplicate the Winchester factory results and so far I haven't found the right combo to get the Hornady 147s under 3 MOA. I'm not going to test past 100 yrds. The bullet is dropping too much for my red dot to be useful beyond 100 yrds in 3 gun.

My experience with the JP GMR13 - it's a great gun, but using the word precision with a 9mm carbine is a stretch. My best 100 yard group was a little over 2MOA. Not what I'd call precision. However, it is a hoot to shoot. I love the gun. 33 round mags and a G34 with 124mm mags make for a great combo in a 100 yard or less 3 gun match. Keep the rounds subsonic and it works great to 100 yards with 147g hollow points. The light weight 115g supersonic bullets work ok in close, but lose their accuracy as they go trans-sonic when you try to go long.