kellyn

I've got about 2500 rounds through one and been testing since August. I've used it in 2 uppers and so far no malfunctions even though I've shot it pretty dirty (although well lubed). I trusted it enough to shoot Fallen Brethren and Blue Ridge with it. The gun definitely cycles faster and is back on target quicker, so fast it takes a little getting used to. I can't say that I shoot it faster than the LMOS but I can feel the difference. So far, I can't detect any "extra" wear and don't know what the life expentency will be. If your shooting was focused around the short course 3 gun nation style, this bolt carrier should seriously be considered. At RM3G, I don't think it will help you so much particularly if your rifle isn't zeroed.

Good match. I liked the rifle stages with a new clever disappearing target and actual semilong range rifle on paper. Next time put the paper at 300!

Single hit anywhere? Now that's encouraging good shooting. I'm ok with a major pf rifle (not pistol) neutralizing a target with an A, B or C hit as I think that reflects reality but certainly not D hits. I think HM will always flounder as it's 1) harder 2) more expensive and 3) slower in an era where a la Ricky Bobby, we want to go fast. But in the end, I think its expense is what limits it. I like the idea of experimenting with intermediate (i.e. sub 7.62 NATO) cartridges and also hate it. Why the hate? I don't like the idea that everyone will need to buy a 6.32X35.6 mm Remington/Hornady/Winchester super 3 gun round at $3 a pop. 5.56 is the standard service cartridge and it's cheap (relatively). The sport should be built around that.

That's true Russell, but I'll take a scope every time over a RDS. Sure a RDS is slightly better for shooting upside down, sideways under a car etc. but a scope is better for the other 99% of shots.

Another vote for the Standards at Blue Ridge. The Chinese Wall from Kyle Lamb's old match was a great stage as was "drive by" stage shooting out of the moving minivan. The "tunnel rat" stage at SOF at Whittington Center with the homemade tunnel and the issued GI flashlight was another great. The night vision stage at NorthWest Multigun is also up there.

Thanks to Andy and his hardworking match staff. That was an excellent event (as it always is). The stage design is amongst the most challenging in 3 gun. It is a match that truly tests one's 3 gun skill set. You'd better bring good zeroes and leave your flinch at home! No 30 second stages from Andy Horner! Thanks to the generous sponsors and to Rockcastle for providing the consistently excellent venue. And the biggest thanks to the Task Force Dagger folks who in the larger sense made the whole thing possible by keeping us safe. You guys are inspiring.

A very challenging match! You'd better bring some good zeroes if you want to shoot this match. Thanks to Jim and the hardworking staff for running such a challenging event.

I agree, that was a great match.

I think this obsession with tiny rifle differences is going down the wrong path. Why did you believe that a 3.5 in barrel difference was going to having any meaningful difference on your scores? I get that 3gun nation style total hoser stages with a max 50 yd shot would seem to favor shorter rifles but even then I question their superiority. Best just to practice.

Good luck on having your new hand guard win matches! Pick one (skinny, wide, heavy, light, whatever, just make it free floated) zero that rifle, practice, zero again and practice some more.

The problem with this analysis is that a true option target event will quickly devolve into a rifle match with a bit of pistol and an even smaller bit of shotgun. It's just too difficult to design a large number of stages in which pistols dont outgun the shotgun and rifles don't outgun the pistol. At least pistols can keep up with rifles in the under 25 yd arena but shotgun shooters can load as fast as they want but they'll never catch good pistol shooters unless the targets require an ounce of lead to knock them over which isn't a true option target.

As fall begins, so do the 2015 match announcements. Post if you got 'em. This thread is only for major matches not your local match, I don't care how cool you think it is.

I personally like option targets (as I like pistols better than shotguns!) but it is super difficult for match directors to design stages where the pistol doesn't rule. If the MD is not careful it does become a 2.15 gun match. The only time I would ever pickup a shotgun is for a 360 swinger, aerial targets, and super heavy set targets that need an ounce of lead to knock over. I believe Richard Bhella is the only Stage designer whoever got me to pick up a shotgun on an option target. I'm not sure what I would have done on that grip it and rip it stage, probably pistol but I've got a turkey extra full choke in the bag....... I dont think a 4 in plate at 20 is a "f you" but it does pose a challenge. Of course bullseye shooters engage a smaller 10 ring at 25 and they do it with a heavier trigger. So much 3 gun is who can shoot the easy targets the fastest which is too bad.

Just 1 lawyer's opinion, eye and ear pro ACCIDENTLY coming off during a stage should stop the stage and require a reshoot. Eye and ear pro coming off intentionally should stop the stage and then the litigation will begin. I realize this calls for some judgment on the part of ROs and match staff to determine if shooters accidentally lost their protective gear or did it intentionally but they make judgment calls all the time. I also realize there are some lowlife competitors who will try to take advantage of this by discarding protective gear during the course of a stage going poorly. I believe that if the RO can articulate that it was an intentional act, the shooter should be DQd. If not, then it's a reshoot. If you are a shooter that intentionally loses safety gear to gain a competitive advantage, you're the scum of the earth and I know there are some out there. It's too bad that some of these people will get away with it but safety is more important. I usually wear double ear pro and have kept going if I lost my ear muffs but if I lost my eye pro I would stop. I can think of two occasions where I've lost my earmuffs but since I had plugs, I kept going. One time I lost my eye pro and kept going and even won a stage at a major match. And you know what that was stupid! I should have stopped.

Richard, I didn't think that I was obsessed about it! But there is a HUGE discrepancy in points when stages have wildly different times. In a 10 second stage, a second is 10 points. In a 100 second stage, a second is worth one point. One malfunction may mean a loss of nearly an entire stage worth of points on a quickie burn it down stage. Now I get the idea that a malfunction on a quickie stage should hurt but the idea that ones match should be over seems a little out of balance. Now I'm not saying that each stage should be the exact same amount of time but they shouldn't be wildly different if we are to use 100 points per stage scoring. But what do I know, I like Horner and Comstock better than the commonly used scoring system (2Ds is good shooting!) now! But keep up the good work, I love your matches!

Full size IPSC at 100 B/C zone at 75 Clay pigeon at 25. I'm looking at you JJ.

Some of the best shooting I've ever done has been with this scope.

I can't imagine that there is any other crew that puts on such a good local 3 gun match. That was a good match with some clever challenges especially Stages 1 and 3.

I'd say the answer is yes, it's an essential component to a 3 gun rifle. Free floating certainly helps accuracy but more importantly it allows the rifle to interface with props without causing point of impact shifts.

You don't need to shoot service rifle, match rifle, or smallbore to be a good three gunner. That being said, it certainly helped me having a background in Highpower but I've only shot one Highpower match this millenium! Buying a .22 trainer or even a decent air rifle will help you build positions and learn to shoot groups WAY cheaper than taking up a new sport (3 gun is expensive enough!)

Just for my knowledge what's the reasoning behind this Kelly? Not sure what Kelly's explanation is but, since I happen to agree, I see the problem being the relative value of mistakes/screwups. If the stage won in 15 seconds and the stage won in 45 seconds are both worth 100 points, then one target miss is going to put you way down on the quick stage (no matter how well you shot the rest) whereas you can still turn in a decent score with an otherwise excellent run on the longer stage. For me, it comes down to making sure that one target does not have a disproportional effect on the entire match result. At Topton a couple years ago, Dean DeTurk dealt with this at the 3-Man 3-Gun by having the obviously fast stages worth only 50 points, and that worked out well. This! I understand StealthyBlagga's point and it is not without merit but short stages place WAY more point value on each target.

I like sling stages! I like single gun stages. I think we do too much Multigun on stages just to say we did. I like alternative starts: unloaded guns, pick up off tables/glove boxes/trunks of cars. Speaking of cars, I think matches should include stages from in and around cars. I like using the shotgun its fullest extent i.e. including sporting clays/aerial targets. I like technical offhand rifle and pistol shooting. I hate shooting slugs on tiny targets past 50. I like a standards stage (gasp) even though USPSA/SOF/Andy Horner are the only ones ballsy enough to run one. I like Horner scoring (gasp part 2) I like target recognition stages a la Kyle Lamb's long dead match. I liked Kyle Lamb's long dead match A LOT. I like consistent target presentations so iron sight shooters are on equal footing. I like support side shooting. I like stages with choices. I like movers and swingers for rifle. I like more than 1 "long range" rifle stage. If stages are worth 100 points each, there should not be any stages less than 45 sec-1 min. No 15 sec stages.

Mark, I like you too!! There is not much offered in the training realm for this type of shooting. Most carbine classes focus on shooting well under 100. My advice, take a class from Kurt or Voigt (or me!) or even take a "precision shooting/sniper rifle" class. Jerry M and Bennie Cooley's videos will give you some perspective on positions and barricades. Better yet buy a set of MGM lollipop targets and shoot them till the break!! (something that I've not been able to accomplice but getting close on one lollipop). Shoot groups at 200 and 300, master your zero, do short focused drills on your new set of MGM lollipops: offhand, supported offhand, reverse kneeling, sitting and prone

While the STI/SV pistols are fantastic 3 gun pistols, they are not the only competitive ones. People do quite well with long slide Glocks, M&Ps and CZs (The CZ CTS LS SAO in particular for 3 gun).

Having dealt with this specfic prop as much as anyone else, I typically go prone through it. While shooting off the top is slightly faster to get in and out of, shooting prone is usually faster when the trigger pulling actually starts.