kellyn

random thoughts about shotgun shooting: I think that it is really important to lean into the shotgun very aggressively. Otherwise you'll get pushed out of position and find yourself standing on your heels. Use your strong side leg as a shock absorber and put most of your weight on your weak side leg. don't place your natural point of aim on the first target. Instead put it towards the middle of the array or even towards the far side of the array. If shooting from the high ready, cover the target w/ the muzzle and when the start signal goes, simply push the muzzle towards the 1st target. This will raise the butt to your face. Bring the stock to your face not vice versa. Don't swing thru targets and try to shoot them. Wait for the shotgun to stop on each target, however briefly, and then shoot. Hope that helps. With that 17rd tube, Clark does not even shoot, he just hits the steel w/ the end of the tube

I am assuming that you are talking about a conventionally stocked rifle M1A, Model 700 etc. that does not have a pistol grip like an AR or FN. If that is the case, I don't see any problem w/ your thumb on the right side of the stock. Jeff Cooper and Gunsite teach that way. You don't really lose much gripping power and it keeps your thumb from smacking your face on an M1A or Garand - particularly if you have a weak position. I also think it aids in stroking a bolt on a bolt gun. However, when I went to a highpower clinic put on by the Marine Shooting Team (pre-M16 days), they were very firm that one should wrap the thumb around on an M1A to obtain a proper grip. With proper postion, you do develop a strong and consistant spot weld between thumb and face. This was instilled so deeply that I still shoot an M1A this way but when shooting a bolt gun I place my thumb as you do, on the right side. Trigger finger placement is a very personal thing and also depends on the trigger. I generally use the pad just behind the fingertip and in front of the first joint. D. Tubb recommeds that the shooter should be slightly "reaching" for the trigger. This has helped me, particularly w/ offhand shooting.

I use the same drills for both scoped and iron sighted rifles. My scores w/ irons tend to be about 85-90% as those w/ a scope on long range courses. Scores are about the same on close range courses. At SOF and Myst Mt., 8-10 inch gongs are shot with iron sighted guns at 200 - 350 meters. This is not a problem as long as they are distinct against the background. At Rio, we've started painting them bright green or orange. Black or white is ok as long as they are distinct. Scopes don't make you hold the rifle any better or give you better trigger control, they only put the target and sighting reticle on the same visual plane. I believe D. Tubb said he can shoot the same size groups w/ good iron sights as with a scope and I believe him but again the targets must be distinct - like the high power bull. I agree w/ your observation about going prone being like the draw. Other basic skills are using barricades as rests, the basic offhand presentation from high and low ready, knowledge of the basic postions, shooting on the move. Just like pistol shooting! FYI, I can't stand the stock front sight on an AR. It is far too wide. Maybe that's good for shooting VC in the jungle, I don't know. But for shooting at any distance get a skinny national match front sight.

Travis Tomasie in 2002

Rifle master!!!! Wow..... When I was getting ready for the 3-Gun natl's and Myst Mtn, I had 3 basic drills. Once you get a good zero, practice on steel b/c you don't have to keep going down range. 1) I would go to the silohuette range and shoot 2-3 chickens at 200 meters from standing to prone. I think a good starting par time is about 5 seconds for the 1st shot and then a 1 1/2 second split for each subsequent chicken. I did this so much that I broke the stock on my AR! The chickens are not a hard target from prone but they are harder than most targets that I have ever seen in a IPSC/SOF match 2) Offhand "snaps" and "pairs" at IPSC targets from 3-50 yards. par times range from 1 to 1 1/2 second for the 1st shot. 3) At the public range at Rio there are 3 steel targets at 100 yards, 2 at 200, 1 at 300 and 1 at 330 yards. I would shoot them all from prone w/ bipod, standing w/ a rest, and kneeling using the ching sling. I like the sitting position but we never seem to have to use it. You want to blend short and long range techniques. I always shot on harder targets at long range so during matches all the long range shots seemed easy. Also do some shooting on the move at close range targets. (Edited by kellyn at 10:07 am on May 27, 2001)

According to Nelson ford "The Gunsmith:" "On the 8th day, God said you shall load 5.3 grains of Bullseye w/ a 200 grain SWC." That load has always worked pretty well for me.

I've noticed that new shooters prefer to shoot steel due to the instant feedback. Everybody loves to hear that "CLANG!" When my wife was getting ready for her elk hunt, it was a pain to get her to shoot paper w/ the .270 (so I stopped trying) but when she switched to steel she loved it. When shooting paper, you don't know the result until it's scored. With Steel you know right now. She tells me that it really increased her confidence. Steel is fun!

I've heard that Frank Glenn put a dot on a shotgun and it improved his scores. I've tried it at skeet but not sporting clays. It was definitely different. It did not improve my scores though. I found myself using the dot as a front sight. I started to lose attention/focus on the clay target. I may not be the purist that Ghost Dog is :)but I am inclined to agree. Plus a red dot really makes a shotgun look ugly!

Come to Rio Salado, I get beat by those guys every weekend!!!!! and every Tuesday night!!! That is the great thing about Rio, if you can win there, you can win anywhere. (but the record should reflect that I beat Rob in a local match a couple of months ago: Kelly 1, Robbie 500,000) I think shooting local matches is always good practice. Practice can never quite approximate competition. I've shot some other local matches throughout AZ and I've learned something at each one regardless of the level of competition. Plus, going to local matches is what serves as the basis of the sport. How could USPSA/IPSC exist if all the best shooters avoided local matches?? They provide inspiration and serve as a model for everyone else. They also pull everyone else's skill level up as everyone tries to catch them. If all the best shooters hid away, the sport would surely suffer.

SOF and its spin off - the WORLD (!!!!!) Tactical 3-Gun Championship - allow a maximum of 22 inches for the shotgun barrel. USPSA/IPSC only has a max round count as Brian mentioned. Once I get my Benelli set up for SOF, I expect that it will hold 12 rounds (10 round magazine, 1 on the follower and 1 in the chamber). It won't be Limited Legal in that config.

Hey there dark horse! I am in the same boat you are. I have a great deal of trouble shooting a consistant major match. One thing that has really been helping me lately is to shoot the match my own way. I used to 1) try to burn each stage down shooting it at 110% and 2) religiously copy Rob L, Voight etc. While I would win some stages, I would crash in others. I have changed my strategy and it seems to be helping. At the Mystery Mtn 3 Gun, I think I shot every stage differently than the big boys, which was hard b/c I was squadded with them. The only one I crashed in was the last one where I tried to copy Miculek. Big MISTAKE! I've found that there are some things that others do that I cannot do consistantly. I've also found that I can do things that others can't do. I've really started to look at matches as a whole, instead of trying to win each stage. Learn from others but BE YOURSELF!!!

Brian, when you are shooting clay pigeons w/ a shotgun: 1) Do you swing through the bird and break the shot when you feel that the lead is right or do you establish a sustained lead and then break the shot? 2) Do you use the bead (or the popular fiber optic front sights) or do you solely look at the bird? 3) What do you focus on when mounting the shotgun from the ready position? Do you mount and then swing? Or do you do both simultaneously? 4) How do you hold the shotgun with your weak hand? Do you point w/ your weak index finger? 5) Any tricks for keeping the face on the stock? 6) What is the meaning of life?

Shooting suspects does reduce recidivism but it leaves the prosecutors with nothing to do!

Duane, I was with you until the global warming (it's here! Nearly 3 centuries of the Industrial revolution has had an effect) and police shooting running suspects comments. C'mon do you really think the police ought to be able to shoot fleeing suspects?? If the suspect is a present threat to the community, ok (i.e. armed murderer fleeing the scene etc.) but for for every one of those, there a 1000 cases where it is a 16 year old trying not to get caught w/ a beer or a joint or some guy who has a misdemeanor warrant for a traffic violation. Should the cops be able to light them up?? Or should they just have to catch them fair and square? Oh, a perfectly grilled porterhouse (rare) is the perfect food

Interchangeable chokes are a nice option. Cylinder bore won't cut it so I would avoid that at all costs. Most stages seem to be shot w/ improved cylinder or modified. Choke and shot weight (greater than one ounce) seem to be more important than actual shot size. I generally shoot 7 1/2s but sometimes switch to 6s if the shots are long but again a tighter choke is better for longer shots than increasing pellet size. I like ghost rings. I have trouble shooting slugs well w/ a bead and I don't lose much - if any -speed when shooting shot. Buchanan Bag Works in Scottsdale, AZ makes some trick shot shell holders. You can have shells on your arms, waist, chest, thigh, shotgun. Just about anywhere. You can have so many shells on that if you fall you can't get up! These are a must have item! extended safeties and trigger jobs are nice but not essential.

For the 3 Gun Natls, USPSA posted (online) stage descriptions for each stage. Pretty much what you would see in a match booklet. They also posted stage diagrams, showing targets, movers, barricades etc. The diagrams did not include the distances to the targets or how far apart the targets would be etc. But you had a pretty good idea about what to expect. I agree. I don't like any posting of stages etc before the match. There should be no difference between how the USPSA 3-Gun and USPSA pistol matches are held.

Anybody have any 9X23 loading data for an Open Gun??

Let me clarify. I was refering to the 3 Gun Nationals which posted stages well in advance of the match. But what's the difference?? Let me also clarify that USPSA posted descriptions and diagrams but these descriptions made very little reference for distance. You could not go out and exactly duplicate a stage prior to the match but you could probably come close. I did not care for this approach.

I like a good trigger. I prefer Accuracy Speaks single stage trigger kit on my ARs although the Milazzo, JP, and Jewells are all good. I think single stages are better than double stages for IPSC (but not by much). As for comps, I really like shooting a JP but I hate looking at one! Plus they are not legal under the new Limited rules or under SOF rules. I also like the newer version of the Accuracy Speaks Jakenator and the Bushmaster Mini Y, both of which are SOF/Limited legal. Open class AR seem to have a wide variety of sights. If I were only to have one, I would have a Leupold 1.5 - 5X. That is flexible enough for nearly every situation. Some very good shooters rely solely on low powered variables. Some however rely solely on dot sights. My gun has a Leupold 3-9X on an Accuracy Speaks extended rail (yes, Derrick and Jake run my life) and an Aimpoint w/ a 5 MOA dot mounted on the handguard at about 2 o'clock. For a limited gun, I like a National match front sight and a same plane rear apeture but I seem to be one of the few shooters who likes to switch apetures from big to little. You should have a free floating handguard. W/ Iron sights, I like to shoot w/ a sling if the stage allows. I firmly believe that the highpower or Ching sling significantly allow one to engage targets both more accurately and more quickly from the prone position IF YOU CAN START W/ THE SLING ON YOUR ARM which some matches allow - some don't. I seem to be in the minority w/ this view however. As factory guns go, I think the ASA Open and Limited rifles are a big step in the right direction. they seem to be pretty well thought out.

Interesting question. My initial reaction was that one should not practice classifiers but it was ok to reshoot one if something went horribly wrong (jam or you just did not really shoot up to par) and you were worried about being underclassified. I have little problem w/ people being overclassified as they have to shoot in that class but I am not very much into the classification system (philosophically I feel that heads up is the way to go). But then I realized that all of the stages to all of the Nationals are released well in advance (if not in the same detail). How can we reconcile the idea that classifiers should not be practiced but we can practice the Nationals over and over again??

Brian, when you are shooting prone w/ a rifle, do you prefer to engage targets right to left or left to right? I always prefered right to left b/c I felt my position got tighter (I shoot right handed) as opposed to loosening up, especially when shooting w/o a bipod. But I saw some very good shooters shooting left to right at the 3 Gun Natls. What do you think? What about when shooting offhand? At the Team Challenge did you shoot the rifle targets right to left or vice versa? Which direction does Tubb go?

I like a .09" black post on a Limited pistol. However, I like a tritium front sight on a carry gun and I've never seen a tritium sight that skinny. I think skinny front sights give more "feedback" and are more precise. I don't particularly like the tritium dot on my front sight in the daytime as I think it is a little distracting. But I was involved in one self-defense situation that happened in the dark. Thankfully nobody got hurt but I'm glad I had a night sight. I have had no problems switching between guns w/ different styles of front sight.