kellyn

I know that guy!

I heard that we would have to shoot spinners at 450 yards with our PCCs? True?

Here we go again.

Never EVER agree with Eric.

Zero your rifle. By that I mean really zero it and understand the ballistics of the rifle bullet in flight.

My response to those who state that Mag-fed shotguns equals OPEN is why? Firearms technology is going to change and advance. Is Tac Optics frozen in time? I remember when Tactical didn't exist (yes, there was a time of Limited and Open) and the same arguments were applied to rifle optics. "Optics equals OPEN!!!" was the battle cry then. This is not to say that I'm for a change right now but if mag fed semi-auto shotguns become commonly available, I will probably support a rule change allowing them into Tac Optics. But I'm with Stlhead, looking at "Tactical" shooters festooned with shotshells all over their bodies in various contraptions and pike length shotguns is not a direction that I went to head either.

Remington and Mossberg have now standardized detachable box magazines in the 870 and 590 line of pump shotguns. I can only imagine that they will make their way to the popular semi-auto shotguns shortly. Currently this would place the shooter in Open division. So should we fight the future to retain our caddies, vests, and quad loads? Or start planning on allowing these types of shotguns in the other divisions?

I hope so because I've shot my SP01 in SA mode in 3 gun hundreds of times!

Mike.45? Never heard of him.

In Eric's full day format there is no time for tea time. 1/2 day format does allow for a civilized tea break. FYI I'm not sure that Steathyblagga is actually allowed on any U.S. teams. The Empire can have him.

Have to agree to disagree, Eric. I prefer 1/2 day format if possible. I would rather shoot and be getting ready to shoot rather than sit for hours and hours at the range doing nothing except talking to Eric M. I do not select matches on the basis of this however.

Good idea.

For major matches ONLY. I don't care how good you think your local event is.

God does not want you to shoot a .357 Sig or .40 S&W or worse downloaded 10mms in He Man. That's why.

Rio's 3 gun crew has been a VERY GOOD job of creating a 2 Gun/3 Gun mix. I'm not ready to hang the shotgun up just yet but I do think 2 gun has a bright future ahead of it. The untapped "AR+Glock" demographic is real.

We have to agree to disagree, Stealthy. Yes, Time-plus is a bit faster to score (a legit benefit) but it promotes sloppy shooting (a legit detractor). I wish the AZ State PCC championship was run under USPSA rules and scoring (and I'm probably the only one......).

Huh? I thought the topic was a discussion as to whether 3 gun should have such stages not "if you don't like it, don't show up." Great attitude there. Whether our not 3 gun should recognize its "martial roots" is an absolutely legitimate topic. I respect both sides of the debate. I'm not totally committed to the "combat application of the shooting" as I like sporting clays/aerial targets but I'm also not on the side of "let's have a 35 round stage just to see who loads the fastest" crew either. If 3 gun continues to specialize to the point where shooters need $500 worth of shot shell holders to hold 50 rds. of shotshells on their body, it will become more and more esoteric. I don't want the sport to go down that path but that's probably where it's headed: more specialized and less welcoming.

Don't think I'm in the wrong sport since I've been doing it for 19 years now. Stages requiring 3 guns never make logical sense. But we long since abandoned logic in stage design. To (poorly) quote Kurt Miller "3 gun lost its way when stages were no longer scenario based." But now we live in a world where I shoot slugs out of a shotgun at 100 yard targets when I have a rifle on my back, where I toss my rifle or shotgun into a barrel because I'm told to toss my rifle/shotgun into a barrel, where I load 10 rounds into my shotgun to shoot steel targets when I have a loaded pistol on my hip. Some people (the majority?) obviously like the constant transitioning between guns and tossing them all around the range, I've never cared for it. Not to say I'm not good at it............

I, for one, despise the high round count shotgun stage. Of course, I generally don't care for the use of all 3 guns on a stages either. I understand Kurt's comments on the combative roots of the shotgun but I'm more willing to stretch the use of shotguns in 3 gun to include use of aerial targets i.e. tactical sporting clays. I think the sport should include the use of aerial targets to test our abilities to really manage these weapon systems plus as far as I'm concerned that's what shotguns are for: birds! But I still loathe stages which simply go way outside the lane of the practical roots of this sport. Requiring shooters to carry around 1-2 boxes of shotgun ammo on uber-specialized carrying systems which have no place other than a 3 gun match (in divisions that we call "Tactical" or "Limited") seems silly to me. Loading the shotgun is an important skill but we've got to the point where we are testing shotgun loading more than shotgun shooting and using completely unrealistic gear in the process. I would keep shotgun stages at a MAXIMUM of 20 rounds.

Wow, I liked the match. Did it have growing pains? Sure. I think the half day format would have been much better or the match could have been shot in 2 days. Some of the new ROs were clearly new which led to some inconsistencies in how stages were managed - but that is so often the case in non-USPSA managed 3 gun matches. I witnessed some shooter/RO drama and I'll just say that the ROs weren't in the wrong but they were often dealing with newer shooters who were inexperienced and getting conflicting info. But I liked the stages - which were a bit old fashioned SOF style. They were well designed for quick reset and required accurate shooting. To be fair they did not allow for much imagination in terms of stage strategy and they weren't the apocalypse on Earth/ Welcome to Omaha beach stages requiring the shooter to engage easy targets non-stop for 2-3 minutes like are so popular today. BUT I don't think such high volume stages would have been good for the crowd of newer shooters that were present - many of whom were maxed out as it was. And I liked the scoring system better than standard IMGA scoring (although I think Andy Horner's scoring system is still the best). The Gov 100 Side matches run by Wy Game and Fish were fun and challenging. Those are great general courses of fire. The match had a solid prize table. And it was great to see a Governor come out so strongly in support of the shooting sports. Room for improvement? Sure. Great time? Absolutely.

On top of the main scope is a LOSER. The hold off from sight over bore is only magnified on the close range targets WHICH ARE THE VERY TARGETS THAT YOU WILL BE ENGAGING WITH THE RDS!!! Use a Warne RAMP mount or mount on the hand guard at 45. I zero for 50 so it's close to the zero of the primary optic. Personally I prefer a smaller dot.

I think you should get thee to a benchrest forum. A 1 MOA gun would win nearly every high-power service rifle match much less 3 gun or IPSC rifle events. This is an irrelevant rabbit hole.

Shoot Hornady. Super accurate, no fires, and JJ doesn't complain.

200 METERS with optics (usually 75 grain bullets). When shooting open, I zero the dot at 50. My optics are usually calibrated to a 200m zero and I think it's a great all around zero for optics. 300 YARDS with irons (usually that's with 53-55 grain bullets - shooting flatter is better with irons and IPSC rifle stops at 300 meters which is the only place I'd shoot irons anymore.)

Shot pistol with Rob Leatham and Kyle Schmidt. Bianchi yesterday as well. They make me feel like I suck!